How do I make myself more employable?

[Raenga89]

Hey,

Lately I've been reading a lot about how to get employed with a STEM degree and I see two opposite things.
1. People with science/engineering degree are highly employable.
2. Lots of STEM graduates with either a bachelor degree or PhD struggling to find a job.

I am going to start my bachelor in physics this fall and I feel a bit stressed about my employment chances. I am studying physics because I love it. Working in the physics domain would be great but I won't mind working in any other field if I can get an interesting job.

The problem to me is that a BS in physics isn't really going to get me a job because every field have people graduating with more specific degrees.

- I think that looking for internships would be a great start to earn some experience but it seem pretty hard to find one. (I also wonder if I could apply to firms that work in the economic sector since I see that some phys. BS. work in economics ?)
- Getting a master either in physics/computer science would maybe give me more chance to land a job ? (I think I should say that I am from Europe and from my perspective I feel like doing a master is much more common here that in the US, but it is just from what I've red online...)
- Learning things on my own (I've already learn java, some c++ and web design) but I don't really know how to market this except with excellent side projects I could show, which I haven't done.

I should maybe add that I am 23 years old, I've done something equivalent to community college and learn the basics of bookkeeping, law, economics, worked one year in the field (desk job answering the phone etc...) and since 2 years I've been dealing with chronic health issues. This 2 years hole in my CV is also what makes me anxious about being able to explain it without scaring employer away.

If you don't want to read all of this my questions are :

How can I market a BS in physics ? Is getting a master in physics or any other engineering field going to give me the amount of specialization necessary to find job more easily? What kind of internships should I look for ?

Thank you in advance for reading or answering.

 

[FactChecker]

Applied sciences have more job opportunities. That includes computer science, some applied math (statistics), and engineering (of virtually any type). Other subjects are more questionable.

 

[Choppy]

Lots of physics majors can struggle to find jobs, but the fact that you're thinking about this now is a major advantage. One of the biggest problems I notice is that a lot of physics students don't really think about employment seriously until they're almost finished with their education. At that point there's less opportunities to orient their education in the direction they want to go. A lot of the initial shock comes out of graduating and realizing that when you type "physics" into a job search board... not a lot comes up. At least not compared to more professionally oriented degrees like engineering.

Some tips:

1. Keep an eye on the AIP Statistics. They do a lot of work keeping track of where physics grads gain employment, salaries, etc. This can help to paint a big picture of what's realistic to expect.
2. Learn marketable skills. Learning to code, for example is a big one, but not the only one. You can orient yourself toward statistics, actuarial science, machining fabrication and design, electronics, IT networking, project management, radiation safety, materials science, etc.
3. There are professional branches of physics to consider: medical physics and geophysics are the big ones.
4. Try stuff. This is the best way to figure out what kind of career you might gravitate toward. If you can, try to have a part-time job as an undergrad. It doesn't have to be physics-oriented. Not only will this bring in extra cash, but it will help you to develop soft skills.
5. Build your network. Join your physics clubs. Get to know senior students and graduate students who will be out in the workforce ahead of you-some of them may lead to a foot in the door later on.

 

[Raenga89]

Thanks for you answer! I was thinking about doing some tutoring or taking on some job like you said. There are also a lot of things like hackathon around where I live so this might lead to a nice project to show.

In term of education my university offers many master programs in applied physics and I can do a "bi-disciplinary" master in physics and computer science (I would get 90 credits from physics branches and 30 from CS). I guess this would help to show that I have other skills.

Anyway thanks again.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

A 3.5+ GPA from a top 50 physics program is much more employable than a 2.X GPA from a lower tier program.

But in most cases, finances limit one to in-state programs. Shoot for one of the top two physics programs in your state, and aim for a good GPA.

It's hard to polish up a 2.X GPA, since that screams,

"I AM MEDIOCRE AT MOST OF WHAT I'VE DONE OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS."

 

[StatGuy2000]

A 3.5+ GPA from a top 50 physics program is much more employable than a 2.X GPA from a lower tier program.

But in most cases, finances limit one to in-state programs. Shoot for one of the top two physics programs in your state, and aim for a good GPA.

It's hard to polish up a 2.X GPA, since that screams,

"I AM MEDIOCRE AT MOST OF WHAT I'VE DONE OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS."

The OP has already mentioned that they are from Europe, so I presume they will be starting their studies in physics in a European country.

 

[symbolipoint]

Raenga89,

Doing a job as a tutor means you can show people things and communicate.

Learning how to operate equipment also impresses potential employers because, if it was related either loosely or closely to something that is done in the employing company. Employer may then guess that you are more easily trained in contrast to if you had no such experience. Computer programming may also impress some employers for the sake of YOUR skills in arranging for data-processing.

Just how any of that relates to your education in Physics versus a more vocationally oriented degree, maybe better for other members to discuss. You want to have skills and familiarities that the employing companies will find valuable for THEIR products or services.

 

[Raenga89]

A 3.5+ GPA from a top 50 physics program is much more employable than a 2.X GPA from a lower tier program.

But in most cases, finances limit one to in-state programs. Shoot for one of the top two physics programs in your state, and aim for a good GPA.

It's hard to polish up a 2.X GPA, since that screams,

"I AM MEDIOCRE AT MOST OF WHAT I'VE DONE OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS."

That's my goal, I guess it would be a question for another post but I really need to learn how to learn math/physics. Particularly how to take an exam and be able to perform the same way as any other day.

 

[CrysPhys]

- Getting a master either in physics/computer science would maybe give me more chance to land a job ? (I think I should say that I am from Europe and from my perspective I feel like doing a master is much more common here that in the US, but it is just from what I've red online...)

Since you're in Europe, you need to get guidance specific to Europe (and further specific to particular countries of interest to you). Be careful reading guidance specific to the US, because there are substantial differences. For general background, I'll give you a rundown of the considerations in the US; you'll need to find out from others the European counterparts.

In the US, a student typically applies for a PhD program in the final year of his undergraduate (bachelor's) program. A master's is not required to apply for a physics PhD program in the US; whereas, in many European countries, it is. For physics, a terminal MS typically does not gain you much advantage over a BS with respect to career opportunities; see discussion below. There are always outliers, of course. There is also the stigma that a PhD student who does not complete his PhD program often leaves with a MS as a consolation prize.

In the US, if a student applies for a physics PhD program and is accepted by a university that really wants him, he will be offered full funding. If a university accepts him and doesn't offer him full funding, they really don't want him. If he applies for a traditional physics MS program, he likely will not receive full funding. Some universities have developed terminal professional master's programs in physics similar to those in engineering (see discussion below), for those who do not wish to continue on to a PhD program. I don't know how well these are viewed by potential employers. My guess is that hiring managers who have no experience with them won't give them much weight.

In the US, companies do hire people with a BS in physics (as listed in the AIP page cited by Choppy). E.g., about 5 yrs ago, I served as a mentor for a student completing her BS in physics. She was hired as a research assistant for a company producing accelerators for medical treatment. After several years, she left to go to grad school to get a PhD in medical physics.

In the US, a BS physics qualifies you for a supporting role, such as a research assistant. If you want a lead role, you'll need a PhD; a MS is not sufficient. The usual caveat about outliers applies. The story for engineering and computer science is different. With a MS in engineering or computer science, you can land a lead role. Fulfilling the requirements for a PE (Professional Engineering) license will give you an extra boost in career opportunities.

Again, find out the specifics for the country or countries in which you plan to study and seek employment. Good luck!

 

[symbolipoint]

There is also the stigma that a PhD student who does not complete his PhD program often leaves with a MS as a consolation prize.

This has been reported here on physicsforums many times. Is that kind of consolation prize thing justified or not?

 

[CrysPhys]

This has been reported here on physicsforums many times. Is that kind of consolation prize thing justified or not?

Caveat 1: This applies to the US; and specifically applies to MS physics, not MS in other fields.

Caveat 2: My response does not take into account (relatively recent in the overall scheme of things) professional masters degrees in physics. As I mentioned before, I have no knowledge of how well they have been received by potential employers. If others do, I would appreciate it if they would chime in.

Think of it this way. As I mentioned above, a masters in physics typically does not afford additional career opportunities and typically must be self-funded. So there is little incentive for a student to apply for a MS program in physics and deliberately stop there (again, there will be exceptions). Most students interested in pursuing graduate education in physics will apply for a PhD program. So when a hiring manager comes across a MS physics as the final degree in a resume, he will think, “Hmmm. What's going on?”; i.e., a red flag.

When I was in grad school, a MS was automatically granted once we successfully completed the first year of courses. That’s it. You had two shots at the qual. A small few would take the first shot after the first semester of the first year. Most would take the first shot at the start of the second year, by which time they would have been granted a MS. If they blew both shots at the qual, it was bye-bye, with an MS for consolation. Then there were those who passed the qual, went on to start research, got frustrated, and quit ... again with a MS for consolation.

A colleague of mine who went to a different university told me there you couldn’t even apply for a MS program. Nor did the dept automatically grant a MS. So his resume listed BS, PhD, but no MS. The dept did grant a MS to students who successfully completed required coursework and specifically requested the grant of a MS. Now, if you’re getting a PhD, you typically don’t care whether you have a MS. So who would request a MS? ... Those who washed out of the PhD program for whatever reason and wanted something to show for their time spent there.

 

[bigfooted]

I live in the Netherlands, and here, almost nobody stops after a BSc. This is seen as dropping out. Obtaining the MSc. degree is the standard if you go to university. After completing the MSc, you look for a job. A PhD is 'just' a job at the university with a 4-year contract. I don't think having a PhD has any disadvantages here, but also not a lot of advantages on the job market. Most people just do it because it's fun to do, most don't even want to stay in academia. This is a bit different in e.g. Germany, people call you 'herr Doctor' there and it feels like academic nobility sometimes.

During the MSc, you have to do a 3 month internship - this is the opportunity to stand out by choosing something interesting. The master thesis research is usually 9 months, and it can be done at a company, I regularly supervise students at my company. This is basically supervised job experience. Your grades are important to get a foot in the door when applying for a job. Be the best in at least one topic. Keep a broad range of interests.

 

[f95toli]

I think this is impossible to answer unless we know which country the OP is from. There are major differences not only between Europe and the US, but also between European countries.
Some of the differences are due to the system, but some are also "cultural" in that peoples (and employers) expectation of what a university is "for" differs a lot. In many countries (e.g. Sweden) you study say physics because you want to eventually have a job that is somehow related to physics; but in the UK (and I believe e.g. France) you there are a number of things you can study (physics included) where if you did it at the "right" university can be almost guaranteed a good job; even if it is a field completely unrelated to what you studied (typically jobs in management or finance).

 

[Raenga89]

I am from Switzerland, I'll be studying at University of Geneva (UniGE). I wanted to study at EPFL but I failed the entrance exam, I technically still have a shot but I'd rather start my bachelor now and eventually enroll for a master at ETHZ/EPFL.

I was asking about how to make myself more employable because the reputation of UniGE is good, especially in physics but the 2 states university are really at the top and I wasn't sure I could enroll for a Master there. (I've been reading the law regarding the admissions from swiss universities to EPFL and it should be okay).

Now regarding the Master questions which was the subject of a few previous post.
I wanted to have some information because I though it would be a good idea to work for a year or two at the end of my bachelor. I don't want to chose an orientation to hastily as there is a lots of things I would like to work in (like going into a path oriented toward computer science / math or medical physics... even finance looks interesting).
And just as bigfooted said stopping before a master isn't really well seen in Europe so eventually I'll do one.

On another note I've had a lots of insights about all of this so thanks again.

 

[symbolipoint]

And just as bigfooted said stopping before a master isn't really well seen in Europe so eventually I'll do one.

That is interesting, because principals might look upon going from bachelor's degree to employment-work, as "stopping" after bachelor's degree and before master's degree. Maybe "as seen in europe" and "as seen by employers in europe" are not the same thing?

 

[CrysPhys]

I live in the Netherlands, and here, almost nobody stops after a BSc. This is seen as dropping out. Obtaining the MSc. degree is the standard if you go to university. ...

In the Netherlands, does what you say apply for BSc physics specifically, or does it also apply to other science and engineering fields as well?

In the Netherlands, since almost nobody stops at a BSc, and those few who do are seen as dropping out, I would assume that those few who do drop out would have great difficulty gaining employment in a technical field. Is this correct? That is, would such people still be considered for lower-level jobs that do not require an MSc?

 

[CrysPhys]

And just as bigfooted said stopping before a master isn't really well seen in Europe so eventually I'll do one.

Remember, that advice was specific to the Netherlands (not Europe overall).

I think this is impossible to answer unless we know which country the OP is from. There are major differences not only between Europe and the US, but also between European countries.

Heed this caveat, Raenga89.

 

[bigfooted]

In the Netherlands, does what you say apply for BSc physics specifically, or does it also apply to other science and engineering fields as well?

In the Netherlands, since almost nobody stops at a BSc, and those few who do are seen as dropping out, I would assume that those few who do drop out would have great difficulty gaining employment in a technical field. Is this correct? That is, would such people still be considered for lower-level jobs that do not require an MSc?

I work in a company and at a university, so I hope I can speak for industry as well as academia here. However, my view is of course limited by what I see in my direct environment. So I checked some newspaper articles and it seems that in an estimate from last year, about 10% of university students in the Netherlands stop after their bachelor degree. I checked some newspapers online and they show two things. One is that bachelor students that do not pursue a master do not have trouble finding a job, although the unemployment rate is lower when you have a master degree (measured one year after graduation). Another point that comes up in these articles are that students seem to stop either because there are requirements regarding grades when you continue to do a master, it is expensive, and some students stop because they just want to start working. One university in the Netherlands even has on their web page 'you can't speak of a finished university education if you stop after your bachelors'.

So I conclude that even though it is still uncommon to 'quit' after your bachelor degree, those that do will still find a job. At a number of companies your salary but also your growth opportunities depend partly on your background education, but I think your personality is also an important factor in your growth.

I studied at ETHZ for a couple of months in an Erasmus exchange/internship program. It was a great experience.

 

[Zap]

Physics is great if you are doing research that is related to your career goals.

I ended up doing research that I hated, but things ended up working out okay. Not great, but so far it's not that bad.

If I could go back, I wouldn't necessarily change my major, but I would have explored more research opportunities in and outside of the field of physics. A great thing about university is you can do just about anything you want there. Lots of cool stuff goes on at university in and outside of class. (Not talking about parties.) If you are interested in something, you can find opportunities to do it there.

You should focus on what career you'd like to pursue after graduation by researching the job market and job posts. A really great thing to do is to periodically type physics into a job search and see what comes up. I still do this and am still surprised with what comes up. If you find something that sounds interesting, look at the expected salary and requirements for the job.

It's true that you can do anything with a physics degree, but it's so broad that you need to focus on only a few of those any things to have a chance at actually doing them.