How 'Messy' are Fusion Reaction Chains in Stars?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the complexity of fusion reaction chains in stars, particularly focusing on the Silicon burning process and the various reactions involved. Participants explore the intricacies of stellar nucleosynthesis, including side reactions, photodisintegration, and the challenges of modeling these processes accurately.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that while simple reaction chains are often presented, the actual processes are likely much more complicated, involving various side chains and photodisintegration.
  • Another participant references Clayton's work, suggesting it also indicates a messy nature of these reactions.
  • A participant mentions that a search on arXiv reveals extensive information on solar fusion, implying a wealth of complexity in the topic.
  • One contribution compares the problem to coupled differential equations, highlighting the challenges in finding analytic solutions and the necessity of numerical approaches.
  • A participant shares an anecdote about a scientist who included all nuclei in simulations, suggesting the comprehensive nature of modeling stellar fusion.
  • Discussion includes the stable isotopes of Silicon and mentions the potential for photonuclear reactions under strong electromagnetic fields.
  • Another participant describes the "Alpha Ladder" process and notes the existence of over 30 minor reaction equations that contribute to this process, emphasizing the need for detailed data on probabilities and energy releases.
  • One participant discusses the challenges of extracting data from software and databases related to fusion reactions, indicating the complexity of the task.
  • There is mention of photodisintegration as a mechanism for gamma ray attenuation, with a participant discussing the low probability of this occurring and its implications for gamma ray interactions with nuclei.
  • Finally, a participant notes that spontaneous fragmentation can occur under high temperatures, referencing modified Maxwell-Boltzmann distributions to describe this phenomenon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a consensus that the fusion processes in stars are complex and involve many reactions, but there is no clear agreement on the specifics of these processes or the best methods for modeling them. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the details of the reactions and their implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current models and data extraction methods, as well as the dependence on specific definitions and assumptions regarding the reactions involved. The discussion reflects ongoing challenges in accurately capturing the full scope of stellar nucleosynthesis.

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TL;DR
How 'Messy' are Fusion Reaction Chains in Stars?
When looking up stellar nucleosynthesis and the various reactions that occur inside stars, I often see very straightforward reaction chains, such as this one for the Silicon burning process (isotope numbers and such left out):

##Si + He \to S##
##S + He \to Ar##
##Ar + He \to Ca##

And so forth down to Iron fusing with helium to make Nickel.

But surely this entire chain is MUCH more complicated ('messy'), right? I assume there are various side chains along with photodisintegration happening all along the main chain. Does anyone have any good references that go into a little more detail about this?
 
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I think there's a problem involving this in Clayton. As I recall, it was...messy.
 
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I fear It’s considerably more complicated and involved as even wiki will tell you. A quick search on arXiv using just the words “solar fusion” opens up an entire goldmine of info.

Happy reading. :)
 
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Fundamentally, it's the same kind of coupled DE that we all leaned not know and love with the "tanks of brine" problems. I think the issues are a) an analytic solution is not very enlightening, and b) a real problem is probably attacked numerically anyway.
 
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I once asked a scientist doing simulations of stellar fusion in stars which nuclei he included in the simulations. His answer, "All of them".
 
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Remember, the stable isotopes for Si are 28Si, 29Si and 30Si, and there are the odd n-capture, and if EM fields are strong enough, photonuclear reactions.
 
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The fusion type you posted on with He atoms is formally called "Alpha Ladder" or sometimes "Alpha Process." It is the continuation of the "Triple Alpha Process" that creates Carbon from 3 Helium atoms. I am documenting the "messy" details for a project I am working on.

There are over 30 minor reaction equations to include in the 'basic' Alpha Ladder. I need the percentage probability of each, along with the released energy, that is the kinetic energy of the fused product, or kinetic energy of the fused atom when it fissions/fragments into two atoms (and rays), as is common with fusion. Or an atom with a neutron and a ray type ... is rare. I need the Gamma Ray energy emitted (when present), and optionally the much less energy of the emitted neutrino, when present. Wikipedia is getting more of these minor reaction equations and associated numerical values. Look for "element_name_here burning" for a few of the reaction equations.

EMPIRE 3.2 Malta software release has all the information I need, but writing an algorithm to fetch it out is very messy. I estimated/thought it would be easier to write code to extract it from ENDF database, but turned out that is much worse. Someone claims to have written an easier API, which I got and need to read its documentation. Next, I will try "Expect" to manipulate the graphic user interface, to fetch the dozens of reactions, along with many initial cross-sections/energy level of initial reactants. Why? The GUI output is more graphs, until you click to ask for numerical tables the graphs are based on. Sigh. Very messy indeed. Easier would be to hire an author of EMPIRE. Hmm, just thought of that.

Regarding photodisintegration that is one way to attenuate, erh, absorb the Gamma Rays created in the Alpha Ladder. The percentage is going to be rather low given the cross section of the Gamma Ray and nuclei. Gamma Ray attenuation is done mostly through ionizing collisions with electron shells. Any where from 1 to 3 or more electrons will be knocked lose from an atom, until the Gamma Ray is can be captured by a nucleus, or more likely is further attenuation to X-Rays and even to UV, and then ionization of inner electron orbitals. An occasional X-Ray will hit a nucleus, and cause various types of havoc there.

I do know if the process is hot enough that spontaneous fragmentation does occur. Modified Maxwell-Blotzmann Velocity Distribution curves predict this rarely happens.
 
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