How reconstitute a conic equation by 4 roots?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of formulating a conic equation that intersects four specified points: two on the x-axis (a and b) and two on the y-axis (c and d). Participants explore the conditions under which such a conic can be constructed, examining the requirements for coefficients and the nature of conic sections.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a quadratic equation can be formed with two x-intercepts a and b, represented as (x-a)(x-b)=0.
  • Others argue that a general conic equation, which is of the form ax^2 + bxy + cy^2 + dx + ey + f = 0, requires five points to uniquely determine its coefficients, not just four.
  • A participant expresses a desire for any conic equation that intersects the specified points and suggests a specific format for the equation, indicating a need for flexibility in representation.
  • Another participant notes that conics, by definition, cannot intersect the x-axis more than twice, implying that the request for a conic that meets the criteria may be impossible.
  • One participant challenges the interpretation of the question, suggesting that multiple conics (like circles, ellipses, and hyperbolas) can satisfy the intersection requirements, except for parabolas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on whether a conic can be constructed to meet the specified conditions. Some participants assert that it is impossible, while others believe that certain types of conics can fulfill the requirements.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of determining conic equations based on specified points and the varying interpretations of the requirements for such equations.

Bruno Tolentino
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Given two points in x-axis, a and b, is possible formulate a quadratic equation whose roots intersects a and b: (x-a)(x-b)=0

So, is possible make the same with a conic equation? Given 4 points, two in x-axis (a and b) and two in y-axis (c and d), is possible reconstitute a conic equation whose roots in x and y are a, b, c and d?
 
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Bruno Tolentino said:
Given two points in x-axis, a and b, is possible formulate a quadratic equation whose roots intersects a and b: (x-a)(x-b)=0
Not uniquely. This is [itex]x^2- (a+ b)x+ ab= 0[/itex]. Multiplying the entire equation by any non-zero number gives another quadratic equation having the same roots.
If you want the quadratic function with leading coefficient 1, given by [itex]y= x^2+ bx+ c[/itex] then you need to determine two values, a and b. That requires two linear equations which you can get by replacing x and y with values of two points, not just where the graph crosses the x-axis.

So, is possible make the same with a conic equation? Given 4 points, two in x-axis (a and b) and two in y-axis (c and d), is possible reconstitute a conic equation whose roots in x and y are a, b, c and d?
A general conic is of the form [itex]ax^2+ bxy+ cy^2+ dx+ ey+ f= 0[/itex]. Even assuming a= 1 we have five coefficients, b, c, d, e, and f, to determine. That will require five points, not just four.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Not uniquely. This is [itex]x^2- (a+ b)x+ ab= 0[/itex]. Multiplying the entire equation by any non-zero number gives another quadratic equation having the same roots.
If you want the quadratic function with leading coefficient 1, given by [itex]y= x^2+ bx+ c[/itex] then you need to determine two values, a and b. That requires two linear equations which you can get by replacing x and y with values of two points, not just where the graph crosses the x-axis. A general conic is of the form [itex]ax^2+ bxy+ cy^2+ dx+ ey+ f= 0[/itex]. Even assuming a= 1 we have five coefficients, b, c, d, e, and f, to determine. That will require five points, not just four.

I want ANY conic equantion that intersects a, b, c and d! And, more importante: I want to write this conic in the format (x-a)(x-b) + (y-c)(y-d) + (x-a)(x-d) = 0! Or, in some format like this...
 
Bruno Tolentino said:
I want ANY conic equantion that intersects a, b, c and d! And, more importante: I want to write this conic in the format (x-a)(x-b) + (y-c)(y-d) + (x-a)(x-d) = 0! Or, in some format like this...
Since you know what "conics" are, surely you know that the graphs of conics are one of:
ellipse,
circle,
parabola,
hyperbola,
a single straight line,
two parallel straight lines,
two intersecting straight lines.
(The last three are "degenerate conics")

NONE of those cross the x-axis (or any horizontal straight line) more than twice so what you are asking for is impossible.
 
Bruno Tolentino said:
Given two points in x-axis, a and b, is possible formulate a quadratic equation whose roots intersects a and b: (x-a)(x-b)=0

So, is possible make the same with a conic equation? Given 4 points, two in x-axis (a and b) and two in y-axis (c and d), is possible reconstitute a conic equation whose roots in x and y are a, b, c and d?
I don't believe HallsOfIvy read your question correctly. Given two x-intercepts a and b, and two y-intercepts c and d, there are many conics that meet this requirement: circles, ellipses, and hyperbolas. The only conic that doesn't satisfy the requirements is a parabola.
 

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