How should I show that the transformation makes the system Hamiltonian?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating that a given transformation results in a Hamiltonian system. The original poster presents a transformation involving variables x and y, along with a Hamiltonian function H(q, p). The focus is on verifying the relationship between the derivatives of the transformed variables and the Hamiltonian, as well as exploring the implications of certain conditions on the system's behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to show specific relationships between the derivatives of the transformed variables and the Hamiltonian. There are inquiries about calculating these derivatives and the implications of certain conditions on the system's fixed points and periodicity.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on calculating the necessary derivatives and suggested a method for constructing the Hamiltonian. Others have raised questions about the nature of fixed points and how to classify them within the context of the system.

Contextual Notes

There are constraints regarding the domain and range of the transformation, as well as specific conditions (b > a and d > c) that are under discussion for their implications on the system's behavior.

Math100
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Homework Statement
Consider the system of equations ## \frac{dx}{dt}=(a-by)x(1-x^2), 0<x<1, \frac{dy}{dt}=-(c-dx)y(1-y^2), 0<y<1 ##, where ## a, b, c ## and ## d ## are positive constants.

Show that the transformation ## x=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}}, y=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}} ## makes the system Hamiltonian, with Hamiltonian function ## H(q, p)=ap-b\cdot ln(e^{p}+\sqrt{1+e^{2p}})+cq-d\cdot ln(e^{q}+\sqrt{1+e^{2q}}) ##. (Hint: You may find the following indefinite integral useful: ## \int \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2x}}}=ln(e^{x}+\sqrt{1+e^{2x}}). ##)
Relevant Equations
By definition, a system ## \dot{x}=X(x, y), \dot{y}=Y(x, y) ## is called a Hamiltonian system if there exists a function ## H(x, y) ## such that ## X=\frac{\partial H}{\partial y} ## and ## Y=\frac{\partial H}{\partial x} ##. Then ## H ## is called the Hamiltonian function for the system. A necessary and sufficient condition for ## \dot{x}=X(x, y) ## and ## \dot{y}=Y(x, y) ## to be Hamiltonian is that ## \frac{\partial X}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial Y}{\partial y}=0 ##.
Proof:

Consider the transformation ## x=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}} ## and ## y=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}} ## with the Hamiltonian function ## H(q, p)=ap-b\cdot ln(e^{p}+\sqrt{1+e^{2p}})+cq-d\cdot ln(e^{q}+\sqrt{1+e^{2q}}) ##.
Let ## \dot{x}=\frac{dx}{dt}=(a-by)x(1-x^2)=(a-by)(x-x^3) ## and ## \dot{y}=\frac{dy}{dt}=-(c-dx)y(1-y^2)=-(c-dx)(y-y^3) ##.
By using direct substitution of the transformation ## x=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}} ## and ## y=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}} ##,
we have that ## \dot{x}=\frac{dx}{dt}=(a-\frac{b}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}})(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}}-(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}})^3)=(a-\frac{b}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}})(\frac{e^{q}}{(e^{2q}+1)^{3/2}}) ## and ## \dot{y}=\frac{dy}{dt}=-(c-\frac{d}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}})(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}}-(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2p}}})^3)=-(c-\frac{d}{\sqrt{1+e^{-2q}}})(\frac{e^{p}}{(e^{2p}+1)^{3/2}}) ##.
Note that ## X=\frac{\partial H}{\partial p}=a-b(\frac{1}{e^{p}+\sqrt{1+e^{2p}}})(e^{p}+\frac{e^{2p}}{\sqrt{1+e^{2p}}}) ## and ## Y=\frac{\partial H}{\partial q}=c-d(\frac{1}{e^{q}+\sqrt{1+e^{2q}}})(e^{q}+\frac{e^{2q}}{\sqrt{1+e^{2q}}}) ##.

Above is my proof for this problem. Is everything correct up to here? How should I finish this proof? What needs to be done?
 
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You need to show that \dot q = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p} nad \dot p = - \frac{\partial H}{\partial q} for some H(p,q) (and the question suggests one). Therefore you need to calculate \dot q and \dot p; the easiest way to do that is <br /> \dot q = \frac{dq}{dx} \dot x \qquad \dot p = \frac{dp}{dy}\dot y. Note, however, that x = f(q) and y = f(p) where f(z) = (1 + e^{-2z})^{-1/2}. Rearranging this we have e^{2q} = \frac{x^2}{1 - x^2} so that 2q = 2\ln x - \ln(1 - x^2) and hence \begin{split}<br /> \frac{dq}{dx} &amp;= \frac1x + \frac{x}{1 - x^2} \\<br /> &amp;= \frac{1}{x(1 - x^2)}. \end{split} The denominator neatly cancels the factor of x(1-x^2) in \dot x leaving <br /> \dot q = a - by = a - bf(p). In the same way you can find \dot p.

Now \dot q is a function of p alone and \dot p is a function of q alone, so setting <br /> H = \int \dot q \,dp - \int \dot p \,dq <br /> will give <br /> \dot q = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p} \qquad \dot p = -\frac{\partial H}{\partial q} as required.
 
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pasmith said:
You need to show that \dot q = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p} nad \dot p = - \frac{\partial H}{\partial q} for some H(p,q) (and the question suggests one). Therefore you need to calculate \dot q and \dot p; the easiest way to do that is <br /> \dot q = \frac{dq}{dx} \dot x \qquad \dot p = \frac{dp}{dy}\dot y. Note, however, that x = f(q) and y = f(p) where f(z) = (1 + e^{-2z})^{-1/2}. Rearranging this we have e^{2q} = \frac{x^2}{1 - x^2} so that 2q = 2\ln x - \ln(1 - x^2) and hence \begin{split}<br /> \frac{dq}{dx} &amp;= \frac1x + \frac{x}{1 - x^2} \\<br /> &amp;= \frac{1}{x(1 - x^2)}. \end{split} The denominator neatly cancels the factor of x(1-x^2) in \dot x leaving <br /> \dot q = a - by = a - bf(p). In the same way you can find \dot p.

Now \dot q is a function of p alone and \dot p is a function of q alone, so setting <br /> H = \int \dot q \,dp - \int \dot p \,dq<br /> will give <br /> \dot q = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p} \qquad \dot p = -\frac{\partial H}{\partial q} as required.
That was very informative and thorough! I have another question under this same problem.

Show that if ## b>a ## and ## d>c ##, then the transformed system has a centre at ## x=c/d ## and ## y=a/b ##, and prove that in this case, all orbits of the original system are periodic.

My question is, how should I construct a proof for this question? Does the given point ## x=c/d, y=a/b ## indicate a fixed point for this system?
 
Math100 said:
That was very informative and thorough! I have another question under this same problem.

Show that if ## b>a ## and ## d>c ##, then the transformed system has a centre at ## x=c/d ## and ## y=a/b ##, and prove that in this case, all orbits of the original system are periodic.

My question is, how should I construct a proof for this question? Does the given point ## x=c/d, y=a/b ## indicate a fixed point for this system?

Note that the transformation in part (a) has domain (q,p) \in [0,\infty)^2 and range [1,\infty)^2.

How you determine if a point is or is not a fixed point?

If a point is a fixed point, how do you classify it as a centre or otherwise? What are the possible types of trajectory which can occur in a Hamiltonian system?
 
The fixed points occur when ## X(x, y)=Y(x, y)=0 ##.
 

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