How strong is the strong force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the strength of the strong force, particularly in relation to the electrostatic force within atomic nuclei. Participants explore the nature of these forces, their calculations, and the implications in quantum mechanics and quantum field theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to calculate the strong force by comparing it to the electrostatic force in a helium atom, arriving at a range of 230.4N to 10,000N.
  • Another participant argues that the concept of "force" is not meaningful for quantum particles, suggesting that potentials are more relevant in quantum mechanics.
  • A participant clarifies that the strength of the strong force is not a fixed number and is more complex than the electrostatic force, referencing a simplified graph for further understanding.
  • Further discussion indicates that the nuclear potential is complicated, involving multiple terms and parameters determined experimentally, and that the concept of "bound states" is more useful than "cancelling forces."
  • One participant introduces the idea of coupling constants to compare the relative strengths of fundamental forces, stating that the strong force is significantly stronger than gravitation and provides context within Quantum Chromodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the strong force and its comparison to other forces. There is no consensus on a fixed value for the strong force, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best way to conceptualize and calculate it.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the strong force, including the dependence on quantum mechanical principles and the complexity of nuclear potentials. The discussion reflects the challenges of applying classical concepts of force to quantum systems.

Nerdydude101
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I got to wondering about this the other day so I tried looking it up but I could not find anything. All j could find was that it had a maximum force of 10,00N. I tried to calculate the electrostatic force of a helium atom because if the strong force has to hold the atoms nuclei together jt has to be at least in equilibrium with the electrostatic force, but tbat came up to be 230.4N. So now I am left with 230.4<FS<10,000. How do I calculate the actual strong force or did I miss something or what? Thanks for the help!
 
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yes, that the "force" as a "force" is meaningless for quantum particles.
 
What is my misunderstanding then? I thought the string firce was what held the particles together against the repulsive electrostatic force
 
The strength of the strong force, in Newtons, is not a fixed number, just like the strength of the electrostatic force. It's a rather more complicated function than the Coulomb function, and you can find a simplified graph at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force
 
I'd say that you don't have a string force...In general I am not finding the concept of "force" helpful in quantum mechanics, neither in QFTs. In both cases the potentials work better, since they are directly connected to energy. Then this "hold together particles" are described by "bound states". rather than "cancelling forces".
The cancelling forces for example, for what I think at the moment, requires to have a localized particle at some distance and thus calculate a force... However the particle can be not localized (in an energy eigenstate rather than in a position one).
Finally the nuclear potential is rather a complicated structure, it contains many terms some coming from theory and others from experiment, with many parameters which are determined experimentally and so on... there can be 14 terms (older Argonne potential) and so on.

Also you can see that coulomb is not enough if you try to think for why there is no bound state of neutron-neutron (no coulomb interaction between each other)
 
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You can't really assign a fixed number, like Vanadium 50 said, but what you can do is compare the relative strengths of the fundamental forces in QFT with something called the coupling constant. Then, you can say that (approximately), the strong force is 1038 times stronger than gravitation, and the electromagnetic force is 1036 times stronger than gravitation (and weak is 1025 times stronger than gravitation).

Calculating the behaviour of nucleons interacting through the strong force is the domain of Quantum Chromodynamics.
 

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