How to Derive and Integrate Specific Mathematical Functions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and integration of specific mathematical functions, particularly focusing on the differentiation under the integral sign and the evaluation of improper integrals. Participants explore theoretical aspects and practical approaches to these problems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how to derive the expression involving the integral of \( p(x) \log(p(x)) \) and questions the treatment of the integral.
  • Another participant suggests reading about differentiation under the integral sign and proposes using Fubini's theorem for the integration of \( e^{x^2} \), indicating to square the integral and then take the square root.
  • Some participants note that the integral \( \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} e^{x^2} \, dx \) diverges, while others seem to confuse it with the convergent integral \( \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} e^{-x^2} \, dx \).
  • A participant points out that the first integral is a definite integral, implying that its derivative with respect to \( p(x) \) would be zero, as it does not depend on \( x \) or \( p(x) \) anymore.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of functional derivatives, suggesting that the differentiation should be approached as a functional derivative instead, noting the role of the Dirac delta function in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the integrals discussed, particularly regarding the convergence of \( \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} e^{x^2} \, dx \) and the treatment of the derivative of the integral involving \( p(x) \). There is no consensus on the correct approach to these problems, and multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made about the integrals, particularly the distinction between definite and indefinite integrals, as well as the implications of treating the integral as a functional derivative.

EngWiPy
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Hi,

I have this derivation, and I am not sure how to derive it:

[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

I mean, what to do with the integral?

Another thing, how to integrate:

[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx[/tex]

Thanks in advance
 
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S_David said:
Hi,

I have this derivation, and I am not sure how to derive it:

[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

I mean, what to do with the integral?

Another thing, how to integrate:

[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx[/tex]

Thanks in advance

Squaring something means multiplying it by itself:

I2 =
[tex](\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx)(\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx)[/tex]

x is a dummy variable of integration. You can change it to "y" (or your favorite letter)

[tex](\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx)(\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{y^2}\,dy)[/tex]

This is similar to a double integral where it got split up because the first integrand was independent of the other variable. You can put them back together (you should know what Fubini's theorem says).

Switch to polar coordinates and it becomes a simple integral over the entire r-theta plane.

Square root the answer at the end (since you just calculated the square of the answer, remember you squared the integral)

Eat cookie
 
S_David said:
Hi,

I have this derivation, and I am not sure how to derive it:

[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

I mean, what to do with the integral?

Good question. :) You perform it and end up with a number which, when differentiated wrt to a function gives 0, because it won't depend on x, or on p(x) anymore.

S_David said:
Another thing, how to integrate:

[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}e^{x^2}\,dx[/tex]

Thanks in advance

The function under the integral diverges when nearing the 2 infinities. The integral cannot be computed, because it's infinite.
 
Good point bigubau! The others were thinking of
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} e^{-x^2}dx[/tex]

S David, you seem to have difficulty distinguishing between a "definite" integral and "indefinite" integral. The first problem was also a "definite" integral and so, also as bitubau said, a constant. It's derivative is 0. The others were thinking of differentiating the "indefinite integral"
[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]
 
HallsofIvy said:
Good point bigubau! The others were thinking of
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} e^{-x^2}dx[/tex]

S David, you seem to have difficulty distinguishing between a "definite" integral and "indefinite" integral. The first problem was also a "definite" integral and so, also as bitubau said, a constant. It's derivative is 0. The others were thinking of differentiating the "indefinite integral"
[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

Thank you all for these comments. Actually HallsofIvy, the integral in hand came from an optimization problem, and if it is 0, then we can not find the optimum solution. The problem is:

[tex]\underset{p(x)}{\text{max}}-\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\log_2[p(x)]\,dx[/tex]

subject to:

[tex]\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,dx=1[/tex]
 
S_David said:
Hi,

I have this derivation, and I am not sure how to derive it:

[tex]\frac{d}{dp(x)}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

It looks like what you actually want to be doing here is taking a functional derivative.

That is, I think what you want is

[tex]\frac{\delta}{\delta p(y)}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)\,log(p(x))\,dx[/tex]

The usual rules of regular calculus usually apply, but note

[tex]\frac{\delta f(x)}{\delta f(y)} = \delta(x-y)[/tex]
where [itex]\delta(x-y)[/itex] is the dirac delta. In doing this you will not get zero as an answer.
 

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