How to Estimate Pi Without Trig Functions

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kalikusu
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Estimate Pi
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The forum discussion focuses on methods to estimate the value of pi without relying on trigonometric functions. Participants highlight the challenges of using trigonometric inputs, particularly the conversion from degrees to radians. A geometric approach using inscribed and circumscribed polygons is proposed, where the estimate for pi improves with each iteration, although it becomes erratic after the 15th iteration due to rounding errors in calculations. Additionally, series expansions such as the Leibniz formula for pi are mentioned as alternative methods that do not involve trigonometry.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of geometric principles, particularly related to circles and polygons.
  • Familiarity with numerical methods and iterative calculations.
  • Basic knowledge of series expansions, specifically the Leibniz formula for pi.
  • Experience with spreadsheet software like Excel for numerical analysis.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the geometric methods for estimating pi, focusing on inscribed and circumscribed polygons.
  • Learn about the Leibniz formula for pi and its convergence properties.
  • Explore Taylor and Maclaurin series and their applications in approximating functions.
  • Investigate techniques to minimize rounding errors in numerical calculations.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for mathematicians, educators, and students interested in numerical methods, geometric approximations, and the historical context of pi estimation techniques.

  • #31
Here's the whole history of the approximation of pi.



Or how about Kate Bush singing the digits of pi?



There's also a weird art movie called pi that I liked.

I had the idea of using pi as a musical sort of time signature. The first measure has three beats, the second one beat, the third four beats, and so forth. But I didn't follow through with this.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: MevsEinstein
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #32
MevsEinstein said:
It was part internet part this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0395977258/?tag=pfamazon01-20 I borrowed this book from my seventh grade math teacher and she let me keep it until the end of the year. But I learned about the Basel problem series from 3blue1brown.
Grant from 3blue1brown is most awesome. At 13 years of age you are doing quite well! Carry on with Grant. Great job
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: MevsEinstein
  • #34
i want to argue that the goal is approximating pi without making use of “trig functions” is in some sense hopeless. Indeed these functions are more naturally called circular functions, and to me this is like asking for the length of a semicircle without using properties of the circle. Indeed the sine function evaluated at t is just the y coordinate of the end point of the counterclockwise arc of length t starting at (1,0), Hence arcsin(y) is by definition the length of the counterclockwise arc from (1,0) to the point of the unit circle with second coordinate y. Since thus arcsin is precisely the arclength function, asking for the value of π is the same thing as asking for the functional value 2arcsin(1), (or arccos(-1)).

The OP made a valid point in observing that it seems problematic to try to evaluate trig functions at rational multiples of π when one does not know in advance how to approximate π. But this is beside the point here, since it is the inverse trig functions which are used, and it is precisely because one often obtains rational outputs from trig functions whose inputs are rational multiples of π, that conversely, one obtains rational multiples of π as outputs of inverse trig functions whose inputs are rational numbers. I.e. using inverse trig functions, one does not need to know approximations to π, rather one plugs ordinary rational numbers into power series, such as that named after Leibniz, (but discovered earlier it seems by Madhava), and the partial sums of the outputs give approximations to π.

On the other hand, if one uses the method of Archimedes, approximating the length of the semi circle by the lengths of tangent segments, one is indeed using ordinary trig functions, not their inverses, evaluated at rational multiples of π, but these inputs are done by geometry, i.e. by subdividing a semicircle into an integer number of parts, and then evaluating by actual measurement. This method uses the fact that the function tan(πx)/x converges to π as x—>0.

I.e. rather than trying to plug πx into a power series for tan, we subdivide a unit radius semicircle into n equal parts, draw a right triangle with vertex at the center of the unit circle, right angle vertex at (1,0), and acute angle = π/n at the center (0,0), hence with hypotenuse dividing the semi circle by n, then measure the vertical side opposite the angle π/n, and approximate π by n times this length. I.e. this side opposite the angle of π/n has length tan(π/n), and the approximating polygon to the upper semicircle has length n.tan(π/n), which approaches π as n approaches infinity.

So I claim all approaches to approximating π must involve trig functions one way or another, even series like π^2/6 = SUM (1/n^2), as Euler explains in his wonderful little book “On the analysis of infinities”, chapter X, at least if you notice that (e^t - e^-t)/2 = sinh(t) = i sin(t/i), where i = sqrt (-1). Euler also states in chapter VIII that he himself approximated π to hundreds of digits, using the series for arctan evaluated at 1/sqrt(3), "with incredible labor", and then explains how to greatly reduce this labor by using the addition formula for tan.here is a nice explanation of how Archimedes method can be done in practice, without physical measurement, by using "double angle" trig formulas:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.07995.pdf
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: OmCheeto and MevsEinstein
  • #35
##\pi ## is defined as half the circumference of the unit circle. The circle is parameterized by ##t \longmapsto (\cos(t),\sin(t)).## With that point of view, you cannot even define ##\pi## without sine and cosine.

We can approximate ##\pi## by regular polygons as Archimedes did. This requires some calculations with triangles. Now, sine and cosine are relations in right triangles, so they are hidden there again. However, I would not say that those approximations involve trigonometric functions, only because both are related via triangles. Suited regular polygons allow approximations that do not require the computation of sine values despite the fact that their edge length is basically a sine value. We can get relevant lengths with triangle computations and square roots alone.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: Vanadium 50 and MevsEinstein
  • #36
Isaac Newton did it without trig functions.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: MevsEinstein

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K