How to Find Root Mean Square Velocity in a Vibrating Box with Steel Balls?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the root mean square velocity of steel balls in a vibrating box, specifically a cube with dimensions of 20 cm per side containing 100 steel balls with a diameter of 5 mm. The density of the balls is given as 7.8 g/cm³, and a movable piston with a mass of 1 kg is present at the top of the box. The key equations referenced include the ideal gas law (pV = NkT) and the relationship between pressure, volume, and internal energy. The challenge lies in determining pressure and temperature without direct values, emphasizing the importance of dynamic equilibrium in the system.

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  • Understanding of thermal dynamics and gas laws, specifically the ideal gas law.
  • Familiarity with concepts of dynamic equilibrium in physical systems.
  • Knowledge of pressure calculations involving movable pistons and gas density.
  • Basic proficiency in statistical mechanics, particularly root mean square velocity calculations.
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  • Study the relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature in gases.
  • Learn how to calculate root mean square velocity using statistical mechanics principles.
  • Explore the effects of movable pistons on gas pressure and equilibrium states.
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Homework Statement


Thermal Dynamics question, gases?
So I have this box with lengths 20cm on each side. There are 100 balls inside of it with diameter 5mm each. The density in the box is 7.8 g/cm3. The bottom of the box vibrates so the balls bounce around. The top of the box has a movable piston of mass 1kg. What is the root mean square velo of the steel balls if the top of the box is in dynamic equilibrium with the gas of steel balls? Ignore gravity for motion of the balls.

Homework Equations


Equations
pV=NkT,
p=m<v^2>N/V=m(2/3)(U/mN)(N/V)=(2/3)(U/V)
pV=2/3U
(p+a(n/v)^2)((V/n)-b)=RT
U=N<K>=1/2Nm<v^2>

The Attempt at a Solution



What I know is there is const V, const N
And what I am basically stuck on is how can I find pressure without temperature? Or vise versa? I have a feeling the answer might be lying in the statement of the top of the box being in dynamic equilibrium to the gas of steel balls.
Also, what does the mass of the movable piston have to do with this?
All the work I've been doing is likely just garble working with the knowns. I haven't found a formula with <v^2> that works with what I can see.

I feel like if I knew how dynamic equilibrium fit into this it would make this doable. And maybe what the 1kg piston has to do with it as well.

Not being able to find T or p is starting to get to me (sad face)
 
Last edited:
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Looks like an interesting -- and challenging -- problem. Do you have a figure along with the problem statement?

Since there is a moveable piston, it seems to me that the volume is not fixed. Also, the weight of the 1 kg mass must be balanced by the "gas" pressure, whatever that is.

If you know the area of the 1 kg piston (is it the entire 20x20 cm^2 of the top of the box?), then you can figure out what the pressure is. Hint: the pressure pushes upward on the 1 kg. Acting down on the 1 kg are the force of gravity and the pressure of the atmosphere.

The density is another clue, since it relates the mass and volume of the gas.
 

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