How to find set from following condition.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around finding sets or combinations of numbers based on specific conditions and states for each number. The focus is on the numbers {1, 2, 3} and how their positions and existence can vary under given constraints. The inquiry includes theoretical exploration of permutations, subsets, and conditional states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to find sets from the numbers {1, 2, 3} while maintaining a specific order, but allowing for variations in position and existence.
  • Another participant suggests that if there are $n$ objects, there are $n!$ ways to order them, implying a focus on permutations.
  • Some participants point out a contradiction in the original problem statement regarding the fixed order of numbers while allowing for positional changes.
  • There is a discussion about whether the inquiry pertains to permutations, subsets, or a power set of {1, 2, 3}.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need for clarity in the problem statement to provide accurate assistance.
  • The original poster clarifies that the conditions for each number include various states of existence and relational constraints, leading to further questions about the number of sets and combinations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the problem, with some focusing on permutations and others on subsets. There is no consensus on how to approach the problem, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the clarity of the problem statement, which affects the ability to provide precise answers. The conditions for each number introduce complexity that is not fully resolved in the discussion.

rajemessage
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how can i find the sets from following situation.
i have three numbers,{1 2 3} which will always be in this order {123},
i want to find out number of cases can be made.

but 2 can come at frist position that is before 1 or at second position or at
third position that is after 3.
and all are optional.

please solve this question with forumulas so that i can find set of bignumbers too.

yours sincerly
 
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If you have $n$ objects, then there are $n!$ ways to order them. You have $n$ choices for the first position, $n-1$ for the second and so on.
 
rajemessage said:
how can i find the sets from following situation.
i have three numbers,{1 2 3} which will always be in this order {123},
i want to find out number of cases can be made.

but 2 can come at frist position that is before 1 or at second position or at
third position that is after 3.
and all are optional.

please solve this question with forumulas so that i can find set of bignumbers too.

yours sincerly

Your problem statement is self-contradictory. The numbers cannot always be in the order $\{1,2,3\}$ if you're allowing $2$ to be at the first position. Or are you allowing the order to "wrap around"? In that case, you could have $\{1,2,3\}, \{2,3,1\}, \{3,1,2\}$, so there are $n$ possibilities.

Or are you asking how many permutations of the set there are? If so, MarkFL's answer is correct.

Or are you asking how many subsets of $\{1,2,3\}$ there are (or what is the power set)? If so, then think about for any given subset, whether you're going to include an element or not, and that'll get you going in the right direction.

It would be very helpful if you could please give us the original problem statement, word-for-word.
 
Ackbach said:
Your problem statement is self-contradictory. The numbers cannot always be in the order $\{1,2,3\}$ if you're allowing $2$ to be at the first position. Or are you allowing the order to "wrap around"? In that case, you could have $\{1,2,3\}, \{2,3,1\}, \{3,1,2\}$, so there are $n$ possibilities.

Or are you asking how many permutations of the set there are? If so, MarkFL's answer is correct.

Or are you asking how many subsets of $\{1,2,3\}$ there are (or what is the power set)? If so, then think about for any given subset, whether you're going to include an element or not, and that'll get you going in the right direction.

It would be very helpful if you could please give us the original problem statement, word-for-word.

yes 123 can not be in this order if i change the position of 2, basically it is my condition.

i am re writing the same problem with conditions.

i want to find out set/case in following situation.

there are three number.{1,2,3}

"1" can have three states,(it will not exist,it will exist and it will be always less than "3")

"2" can have four states, it can be less than "1" , greater than "1" and less than "3", greater than "3" ,existing ,not existing.

"3" can have three states,(not exist,exist and it will be always greater than "1")

"all numbers 1,2,3 are optional".

Q1) how many sets will be there
Q2) what will be that sets/combination
Q3) how to find condition based sets for big number like above

yours sincerely
 

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