How to Find the Directional Derivative of a Function at a Given Point?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the directional derivative of the function \( V(x,y) = x^3 - 3xy + 4y^2 \) at the point \( P(2,1) \) in the direction of a unit vector defined by the angle \( \theta = \pi / 6 \). Participants explore different methods and interpretations of the directional derivative, including the use of the gradient and the scalar product definition.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the gradient \( \nabla V(2,1) = (9,2) \) and uses the scalar product definition to find \( D_u V(2,1) = \frac{\sqrt{255}}{2} \), arguing against an alternative answer of \( 1 + 4.5 \sqrt{3} \).
  • Another participant agrees with the initial calculation of the gradient but suggests that the unit vector should be defined as \( \vec{u} = <\cos \theta, \sin \theta> \) and questions the interpretation of \( \theta \) as the angle between the gradient and the unit vector.
  • A third participant reiterates the calculation of the directional derivative using the unit vector and arrives at a different expression for \( D_{\mathbf u}V(2,1) \), suggesting \( D_{\mathbf u}V(2,1) = \frac{9\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1 \).
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the interpretation of the angle \( \theta \) and expresses gratitude for the clarification.
  • Another participant asserts that there is only one unit vector corresponding to the angle \( \theta \) with respect to the gradient.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correct method to calculate the directional derivative, with multiple competing views on the interpretation of the angle \( \theta \) and its implications for the unit vector. The discussion remains unresolved as no consensus is reached.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definition of the unit vector and the interpretation of the angle \( \theta \) in relation to the gradient. The calculations presented by participants lead to different expressions for the directional derivative, highlighting potential dependencies on these definitions.

Fantini
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Here's the problem:

Find the directional derivative of the function $V(x,y) = x^3 -3xy +4y^2$ at the point $P(2,1)$ in the direction of the unit vector $\vec{u}$ given by the angle $\theta = \pi /6$.

So I found the gradient of the function $$\nabla V(x,y) = (3x^2 -3y, 8y -3x),$$ and then at the point desired: $$\nabla V(2,1) = (3(2)^2 -3(1), 8(1) -3(2)) = (12-3, 8-6) = (9,2).$$ Single he gave me the angle, I can find it using the scalar product definition: $D_u V(2,1) = | \nabla V(2,1) | \cdot \cos \theta$, which means $$D_u V(2,1) = \sqrt{ 9^2 +2^2} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \sqrt{85} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \frac{\sqrt{255}}{2}.$$

The problem is that the answer is $D_u V(2,1) = 1 + 4.5 \sqrt{3}$ which is simply multiplying each of the gradient's coordinate by the cosine and summing. I disagree with it entirely; if the vector wasn't given, there's no way to do the scalar product by multiplying and summing the coordinates, so we have to use the other form.
 
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Fantini said:
Here's the problem:

Find the directional derivative of the function $V(x,y) = x^3 -3xy +4y^2$ at the point $P(2,1)$ in the direction of the unit vector $\vec{u}$ given by the angle $\theta = \pi /6$.

So I found the gradient of the function $$\nabla V(x,y) = (3x^2 -3y, 8y -3x),$$ and then at the point desired: $$\nabla V(2,1) = (3(2)^2 -3(1), 8(1) -3(2)) = (12-3, 8-6) = (9,2).$$ Single he gave me the angle, I can find it using the scalar product definition: $D_u V(2,1) = | \nabla V(2,1) | \cdot \cos \theta$, which means $$D_u V(2,1) = \sqrt{ 9^2 +2^2} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \sqrt{85} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \frac{\sqrt{255}}{2}.$$

The problem is that the answer is $D_u V(2,1) = 1 + 4.5 \sqrt{3}$ which is simply multiplying each of the gradient's coordinate by the cosine and summing. I disagree with it entirely; if the vector wasn't given, there's no way to do the scalar product by multiplying and summing the coordinates, so we have to use the other form.
I believe that the unit vector you look for is

$\vec{u} = < \cos \theta, \sin \theta>$

BTW - with your definition $\theta$, $\theta$ is the angle between $\nabla V(2,1) = <9,2>$ and the unit vector $<\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2},\dfrac{1}{2}>$ and not $\theta = \dfrac{\pi}{6}$
 
Last edited:
Fantini said:
Single he gave me the angle, I can find it using the scalar product definition: $D_u V(2,1) = | \nabla V(2,1) | \cdot \cos \theta$, which means $$D_u V(2,1) = \sqrt{ 9^2 +2^2} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \sqrt{85} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} = \frac{\sqrt{255}}{2}.$$

What's going on here? The direction vector is \(\mathbf{u} = \cos\theta\,\mathbf{i} + \sin\theta\,\mathbf{j} = \frac{\sqrt3}2\mathbf{i} + \frac12\mathbf{j}\), so

\[D_{\mathbf u}V(x, y) = \nabla V(x,y)\cdot\mathbf{u}\]

\[=\left(3x^2-3y\right)\cdot\frac{\sqrt3}2+\left(8y-3x\right)\cdot\frac12\]

\[\Rightarrow D_{\mathbf u}V(2,1) = \frac{9\sqrt3}2 + 1.\]
 
I supposed I misread the question then. What I did was assume he spoke of a general unit vector giving the angle between it and the gradient as $\theta = \pi/6.$ My bad then. Thanks for clearing it up! :D
 
A "general unit vector giving the angle between it and the gradient as \theta = \pi/6"?
There is only one such vector!
 

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