How to merge the sum and ##x^n##?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter MevsEinstein
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the merging of the expression ##x^n + \displaystyle\sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{k}##. Participants explore the mathematical manipulation of this expression, including the correct formation of derivatives and the implications of changing summation bounds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the upper limit of the summation, suggesting it should not be ##x## and instead should be related to ##n##.
  • There is a discussion about the correct notation for the k-th derivative operator, with some participants noting that it should be ##\frac{d^k}{dx^k}##.
  • One participant suggests that the expression could be simplified by expanding the summation to correctly incorporate the ##x^n## term.
  • Another participant proposes that while it is possible to rewrite the expression as a single sum, it may not be aesthetically pleasing and questions the necessity of this transformation.
  • There is a correction regarding the disappearance of the ##y^k## term when ##k=0##, leading to a revised expression that includes a modified denominator.
  • Some participants express a preference for keeping the original expression as it is perceived to be simpler than the modified form.
  • There is a mention of the expression being equal to ##(x+y)^n## under certain conditions, but this is noted to complicate usage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best form of the expression or the necessity of merging the terms. Multiple competing views remain regarding the simplification and manipulation of the expression.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the correct upper limit of the summation and the implications of changing the denominator in the summation. There are unresolved questions about the role of the variable ##y## in the expression.

MevsEinstein
Messages
124
Reaction score
36
TL;DR
What the title says
How do I merge ##x^n + \displaystyle\sum^x_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{d^kx} \frac{x^ny^k}{k}##? I tried changing the denominator of the summand to ##k+1## and make ##k## go from zero, but I had to divide by zero when k equaled one.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
MevsEinstein said:
Summary: What the title says

How do I merge ##x^n + \displaystyle\sum^x_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{d^kx} \frac{x^ny^k}{k}##? I tried changing the denominator of the summand to ##k+1## and make ##k## go from zero, but I had to divide by zero when k equaled one.
Is the upper bound index of your sum right? With to merge both terms, you mean to write everything as a unique sum?
 
I'm not able to guess what you mean by this expression -- ##x^n + \displaystyle\sum^x_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{d^kx} \frac{x^ny^k}{k}##. The upper limit of the summation should not be x, and it should be something other than n.

Also, and this is minor, your derivative is not formed correctly. The usual notation for the k-th derivative operator with respect to x is ##\frac {d^k}{dx^k}##.

Once you get the summation written correctly, the ##x^n## term outside the summation would get added to the corresponding term(s) of the summation. You'll probably need to expand the summation to get the addition right. Sums like this show up in power series solutions of differential equations.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Assuming your sum goes from 1 to n: While it's possible to write this as ##\displaystyle \sum_{k=0}^n ...## it will look ugly. What's the point of this transformation?
 
Hold up the upper bound is ##n##. I couldn't edit though.
 
LCSphysicist said:
you mean to write everything as a unique sum?
I wanted to get rid of ##x^n## and put something in replacement inside the summand of the sum so that the expression is the same. And my upper bound was supposed to be ##n##, sorry for the misconvenience. I couldn't edit for some reason.
 
Ah, I missed that the yk term disappears on its own for k=0 in my previous post. Then it's only mildly ugly.
$$x^n + \sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{k} = \sum^n_{k=0} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{|k-1/2|+1/2}$$

The denominator can be replaced by max(1,k).
 
Last edited:
mfb said:
$$x^n + \sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{d^kx} \frac{x^ny^k}{k} = \sum^n_{k=0} \frac{d^k}{d^kx} \frac{x^ny^k}{|k-1/2|+1/2}$$
Minor nit: the derivatives in the above should be
mfb said:
$$x^n + \sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{k} = \sum^n_{k=0} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{|k-1/2|+1/2}$$
 
But
$$ x^n + \sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{k} $$
is simpler than
$$ \sum^n_{k=0} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{|k-1/2|+1/2} $$
so why not stick with that?

Anyway, what is ## y ## ?
 
  • #10
pbuk said:
But
$$ x^n + \sum^n_{k=1} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{k} $$
is simpler than
$$ \sum^n_{k=0} \frac{d^k}{dx^k} \frac{x^ny^k}{|k-1/2|+1/2} $$
so why not stick with that?

Anyway, what is ## y ## ?
Actually let's just stick with that. The expression is equal to [math](x+y)^n[/math]. Turns out that this formula is harder to use than the one we have now.
 
  • #11
Mark44 said:
Minor nit: the derivatives in the above should be
Copy&paste error, fixed.

@pbuk: That's my point, the original expression is easier.
MevsEinstein said:
The expression is equal to \(\displaystyle (x+y)^n\).
Only if you make it a k! in the denominator.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pbuk

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K