How to prove that the dim of two subspaces added together equals dim

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dimensionality of two subspaces within a vector space, specifically addressing the relationship between the dimensions of their sum and intersection. Participants explore the conditions under which the dimension of the sum of two subspaces can be expressed in relation to the dimensions of their intersection.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the dimension of the sum of two subspaces, dim(V+S), equals the dimension of their intersection plus one, under the condition that one subspace is contained within the other.
  • Another participant challenges this claim, suggesting that if the two subspaces are equal, then their sum and intersection would not differ, implying the original statement is false.
  • A third participant supports the idea that the correct relationship is given by the formula dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim(V ∩ S), which simplifies under certain conditions.
  • Further contributions explore the implications of assuming neither subspace is contained within the other, leading to inequalities that suggest a contradiction to the initial claim.
  • Some participants reference standard results from linear algebra textbooks to support their arguments regarding the dimension formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the initial claim about the dimension of the sum of subspaces. Multiple competing views remain, particularly concerning the correct relationship between the dimensions of the subspaces and their intersection.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which the dimension relationships hold, particularly in cases where neither subspace is a subset of the other. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of standard results in linear algebra.

gutnedawg
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How to prove that the dim of two subspaces added together equals dim of their union plus 1 iff one space is a subest of the other

In other words,
subspaces: V, S of Vector space: W

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V \cap S) +1[/tex]

if [tex]V \subseteq S[/tex] or [tex]S \subseteq V[/tex]
 
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I don't think this is true. If V=S then arent V+S and V intersect S the same?
 


eok20 is correct, the statement is false.

What is true is

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim(V \cap S)[/tex]

which reduces to a simpler form if [itex]V \subseteq S[/itex] or [itex]S \subseteq V[/itex].
 


eok20 said:
I don't think this is true. If V=S then arent V+S and V intersect S the same?

perhaps I mistyped the question.
[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V \cap S) +1[/tex] is given for these subspaces.

One has to prove that

[tex]V \subseteq S[/tex] or [tex]S \subseteq V[/tex]
 


gutnedawg said:
perhaps I mistyped the question.
[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V \cap S) +1[/tex] is given for these subspaces.

One has to prove that

[tex]V \subseteq S[/tex] or [tex]S \subseteq V[/tex]

OK, suppose

[tex]V \not\subseteq S[/tex] and [tex]S \not\subseteq V[/tex].

Then V contains at least one element not in S, hence at least one element not in [itex]V \cap S[/itex]. Thus [itex]dim(V) > dim(V \cap S)[/itex], and since dimensions are integers, this is the same as [itex]dim(V) \geq dim(V \cap S) + 1[/itex].

Similarly, S contains at least one element not in V, so [itex]dim(S) \geq dim(V \cap S) + 1[/itex].

Now apply those inequalities to

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim(V \cap S)[/tex]

to achieve a contradiction.
 


How do I come to the fact that

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim( V \cap S)[/tex]


jbunniii said:
OK, suppose

[tex]V \not\subseteq S[/tex] and [tex]S \not\subseteq V[/tex].

Then V contains at least one element not in S, hence at least one element not in [itex]V \cap S[/itex]. Thus [itex]dim(V) > dim(V \cap S)[/itex], and since dimensions are integers, this is the same as [itex]dim(V) \geq dim(V \cap S) + 1[/itex].

Similarly, S contains at least one element not in V, so [itex]dim(S) \geq dim(V \cap S) + 1[/itex].

Now apply those inequalities to

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim(V \cap S)[/tex]

to achieve a contradiction.
 


gutnedawg said:
How do I come to the fact that

[tex]dim(V+S) = dim(V) + dim(S) - dim( V \cap S)[/tex]

This is a standard result that should be in just about any linear algebra textbook. E.g., theorem 2.18 in Sheldon Axler's "Linear Algebra Done Right." See page 33 in this online preview:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BN...esnum=1&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false"

Here is another proof (PDF file), but it looks more longwinded than it needs to be:

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~clyons/ma1b/intsumdimthm.pdf

[Edit]: See also Problem 16, parts 2 and 3 here:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Linear_Algebra/Combining_Subspaces
 
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