How to rigorously motivate the following formula

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formula \(\int_{0}^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-tx}=-\log x\), which is frequently encountered in physics contexts. Participants explore the mathematical validity and implications of this formula, addressing issues of convergence, regularization, and the interpretation of divergent integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the integral diverges and suggest that a regularization method is necessary, questioning the validity of the formula as presented.
  • Others argue that the formula can be derived through integration, but they highlight that the integral diverges when evaluated directly, particularly when setting \(x = 1\).
  • There is a suggestion that the correct approach involves a different integral that converges, specifically \(-\int_0^{\infty} \frac{dt}{t}(e^{-xt}-e^{-t})\), which some participants believe is more appropriate.
  • Some participants express confusion about the relationship between the discussed formula and other mathematical expressions that involve sums and additional integrals, indicating a lack of clarity in how these concepts connect.
  • A humorous suggestion is made about motivating the formula with pizza, indicating a light-hearted approach amidst the technical discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the formula or the appropriate methods for handling the integral. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation and mathematical treatment of the formula.

Contextual Notes

Participants express concerns about the divergence of the integral and the implications of regularization. There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the formula and the definitions used in the discussion.

Kurret
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I have encountered the following formula a couple of times (always in a physics context, of course..)
\int_{0}^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-tx}=-\log x
Formally one can "derive" this formula by noting that
\log x=\int \frac{dx}{x}=\int dx \int_0^\infty dte^{-xt}=-\int_0^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-xt}
But the t integral obviously diverges. So there must be some regularization of this integral but this is never explained (and sometimes they write that the integral is from ##0^+## instead of 0, whatever that means).
 
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From a mathematical point of view, this doesn't look right. logx=\int_1^x \frac{du}{u}. Therefore the final integral should be:
-\int_0^{\infty} \frac {dt}{t}(e^{-xt}-e^{-t}), which is convergent.
 
Kurret said:
I have encountered the following formula a couple of times (always in a physics context, of course..)
\int_{0}^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-tx}=-\log x

Set ##x = 1## and you get:

\int_{0}^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-t}=0

Which can't be right.

In any case, the LHS is positive and the RHS is negative for ##x > 1##.
 
mathman said:
From a mathematical point of view, this doesn't look right. logx=\int_1^x \frac{du}{u}. Therefore the final integral should be:
-\int_0^{\infty} \frac {dt}{t}(e^{-xt}-e^{-t}), which is convergent.
PeroK said:
Set ##x = 1## and you get:

\int_{0}^\infty \frac{dt}{t}e^{-t}=0

Which can't be right.

In any case, the LHS is positive and the RHS is negative for ##x > 1##.
I agree with everything you are saying, but this is a formula I see quite often but I never understand what it means due to these issues. Just to throw in an example, look at page 5 before equation 1.11 of the following paper
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0804.1773v1.pdf
 
I don't see the relation between the formula that uses a sum, an additional integral, some function K and other things but no exponential, and your function (which has been shown to be wrong).
 
Kurret said:
How to rigorously motivate the following formula
Try offering it pizza. Always works for me :smile:
 
mfb said:
I don't see the relation between the formula that uses a sum, an additional integral, some function K and other things but no exponential, and your function (which has been shown to be wrong).
The additional sum is the only difference. Just substitute the equation just before to get rid of the inner three dimensional integral.

mfb said:
and your function (which has been shown to be wrong).
I am not making this up, I have seen this divergent integral popping up several times without any comments about the obvious fact that it is wrong...
 

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