How to select the required accuracy of an instrument?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the required accuracy of measuring instruments when specific tolerances are not provided, particularly in the context of engine rebuilds and component dimensions. Participants explore various approaches, assumptions, and standards related to measurement accuracy and tolerances.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to determine the necessary accuracy for measuring instruments when tolerances are unspecified, suggesting a potential assumption of +/-0.0005mm tolerance based on a typical Test Accuracy Ratio (TAR) of 4:1.
  • Another participant references the Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty in Measurement (GUM) as a resource that may provide insights into measurement accuracy and uncertainty, agreeing that the accuracy assumption seems reasonable for critical applications.
  • A different participant notes that tolerances may vary in one direction compared to another, indicating that a part being slightly undersized might be acceptable while being oversized could cause issues, emphasizing the need for clear specifications.
  • One participant suggests consulting standards documents for parts that adhere to specific technical specifications, highlighting the importance of understanding measurement methods and environmental factors, such as temperature, that could affect measurements.
  • Another participant points out that the critical aspect of the valve stem diameter is the clearance between the stem and the valve guide, suggesting that typical required clearances are much larger than the discussed measurement accuracy of 0.001 mm.
  • A participant provides standard tolerances from the machining industry, indicating that for the case discussed, a tolerance of 0.005mm might be appropriate based on established standards.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate tolerances and accuracy requirements for measurements, with no consensus reached on the specific values or assumptions to be used in the absence of specified tolerances.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that assumptions about tolerances may depend on specific applications and that environmental factors, such as temperature, can significantly impact measurements. The discussion also highlights the importance of consulting relevant standards and specifications.

fonz
Messages
151
Reaction score
5
TL;DR
Instrument accuracy and precision
If I need to make a measurement to check compliance e.g. measuring component dimensions. How do I know what accuracy is required for the measuring instrument if the tolerance is not specified?

For example, during an engine rebuild, the manufacturer specifies the valve stem diameter to be 5.973mm. Clearly the instrument needs a resolution of at least 0.001mm, but is that enough?

I am aware that in most cases, where a tolerance is specified it is typical to aim for at Test Accuracy Ratio (TAR) of 4:1. In this case the tolerance is not specified so is it correct to assume the tolerance is +/-0.0005mm? Therefore the instrument must have an accuracy of at least +/-0.000125mm?

Thanks
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Paging @Ranger Mike, he probably has more direct knowledge than the below.

This will probably answer more questions than you thought existed!

GUM: Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty in Measurement


https://www.bipm.org/documents/2012...f-3f85-4dcd86f77bd6?version=1.7&download=true

(above found with:
https://www.google.com/search?&q=G.U.M.+guide+to+measurement)

Have fun, it's 'only' 134 pages.

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. It has been years since I read that document, but your accuracy assumption seems reasonable for a 'failsafe', can't tolerate ANY failure, situation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sysprog
There may be more tolerance in one direction than in the other, too ##-## e.g. a machine screw that's a tiny bit too small could be tolerably loose for its intended purpose, but one that's by the same amount a bit too big might just plain not fit without damaging the threads ##-## I think that for engine rebuild purposes, it would be helpful if the spec sheet were to state the absolute and recommended tolerances, along with the target value ##-## @Mark44 has a great deal of actual experience in rebuilding engines ##-## e.g. see this thread (I think that for him that's more of a personal pursuit than a primary profession, as he's also a programming expert and professor, which I think is his primary occupation) and he may have some insights to offer in this matter, as he's a very insightful and helpful person . . . :wink:
 
Last edited:
If is a part that is supposed to adhere to a standards (or at least a technical specification) the answer would be to look up what it says in the standards document.
Yes, you can make assumption just based on the accuracy they are requesting, but the full standard is also likely to specify exactly HOW the measurement should be done and in what environment (in this case temperature would probably play a role).
Also, don't forget about the traceability of the instruments.
 
Last edited:
I realize your valve stem is more of an example, but... The important feature of the valve stem diameter is the clearance between the stem and the valve guide. Typical required clearance is on the order of a thousandths of an inch; say 0.001 inch or 0.025 mm. Nowhere near the 0.001 mm discussed. As @f95toli said, a diameter spec to 0.001 mm (0.00004 inch) would need a corresponding temperature value (holding the valve in you hand would warm the valve and change the diameter by more than 0.001 mm).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sysprog
When no other tolerances are provided, the https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Machining_industry&action=edit&redlink=1 uses the following standard tolerances:[3][4]

1 decimal place(.x):±0.2"
2 decimal places(.0x):±0.01"
3 decimal places(.00x):±0.005"
4 decimal places(.000x):±0.0005"
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_tolerance

So it would seem that for your case the tolerance is 0.005mm.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sysprog and berkeman

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
9K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
10K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
6K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
37K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K