How will replacing the coalition with a UN force help?

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  • #26
jimmy p
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yeah, despite what you think, USA is PART of the UN... they dont rule it...
 
  • #27
member 5645
jimmy p said:
yeah, despite what you think, USA is PART of the UN... they dont rule it...

ummmm, who are you talking to?
 
  • #28
jimmy p
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no-one in particular, just babbling. I know that the majority of you guys are American, but it always seems that these threads are steered into arguements about Bush, so i suppose i was venting a little bit of frustration, because i like to read people's opinions on these world affairs, and not about what Dubya is planning to do/say next.

Sorry... :)
 
  • #29
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kat said:
No, I'm sure that you still have not supported your statements. Assumptions (yours) just don't cut it. You know what they say about assumptions, don't you?
Restate my (and I assume :rolleyes: Adam's) assumptions:

1. The Bush administration keeps a finger on the press and the media.
2. Following his speeches, the media was full of praise and criticism for American style democracies, across the political spectrum.
3. The Bush administration made no effort to correct this.

Therefore, even if this was not directly said, it was a clear implication that was met with approval of the administration. Who's being slippery?

In a return to the topic, why we need the UN in Iraq...

1. Examples of 1000s of people dying etc are moot, since 1000s of people are dying in Iraq right now. Nor are the cases comparable.
2. The prime importance of the UN is political. The rhetoric with the resistance in iraq is that they are opposing an army of occupation, together with all that infidels etc religious claptrap. The involvement of the UN would undermine these protests, as would the implicit approval (since they are part of the UN) of Iran, Jordan, Egypt and the other Arab states.
3. The UN took no part in the invasion itself. Switching or placing the troops under the aegis of the UN would hence lend credibility to the administration's claims that the real conflict is past, and we are moving onto a new phase in Iraq's development. Keeping a full and national armed force in there is, in many ways, a self-fulfilling prophecy.
4. Experience. The UN has greater experience in dealing with these situations.

Consider this: Why did the bush administration go to such an effort to assemble the coalition in the first place? The answer is to provide a replacement to the UN, a sort of UN-lite that they hoped would be sufficient for the rebuilding of Iraq.
 
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  • #30
kat
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Well then, I'll ask again:

kat said:
Does this sound American to you?

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

--------------
Article 21.
(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.



 
  • #31
The UN brings with it the air of International legitimacy, legal ligitimacy, as if all of the rest of the countries of the world agree, hence whats wrong with Iraq that it is against the entire planet....

The logisitics are another thing all-together....right now I don't think anyone knows with certainty what will happen after the deadline passes if the US Does pull out it's troops, civil war?? religious war?? (an oxymoron?) three new (tribally/faction based) Nation states???

Lets just hope that the killing stops....that was, after all, the reason for going to war, to stop the killing.....right? cause you cannot stop the "threat of a killing"....
 

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