How would I use momentum to calculate projectile range?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving momentum and projectile motion, specifically in the context of a long jumper using handheld weights called halteres to potentially increase jump distance. The problem presents a scenario where the jumper's liftoff velocity and the effects of throwing the halteres during flight are analyzed to determine the impact on the jump's range.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the jumper's initial momentum and the momentum after throwing the halteres. There are questions about the correct application of momentum equations and the implications of the halteres' motion relative to the jumper's velocity.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the equations used to analyze the problem, while others have raised questions about the assumptions made regarding the halteres' motion and their effect on the jumper's overall momentum. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of these assumptions on the final calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the initial conditions and the notation used in the equations. There is also a mention of the need to clarify the components of the jumper's velocity and how they relate to the halteres during the jump.

Eclair_de_XII
Messages
1,082
Reaction score
91

Homework Statement


"In the Olympiad, some athletes competing in the standing long jump used handheld weights called halteres to lengthen their jumps. The weights were swung up in front just before liftoff and then swung down and thrown backward during flight. Suppose a modern ##78kg## long jumper similarly uses two ##\frac{11}{2}kg## halteres, throwing them horizontally to the rear at his maximum height such that their horizontal velocity is zero relative to the ground. Let his liftoff velocity be ##v=\langle\frac{19}{2},4\rangle\frac{m}{s}## with or without the halteres and assume that he lands at the liftoff level. What distance would the use of halteres add to his range?

Homework Equations


##m_0=78kg##
##m_1=11kg##
##v_0=\langle\frac{19}{2},4\rangle\frac{m}{s}##
##x=(\frac{||v||^2}{g})(sin2\theta_0)##
##\theta_0=tan^{-1}(\frac{8}{19})##

The Attempt at a Solution


vbNWEgV.png

##p_0=(78kg)\langle\frac{19}{2},4\rangle\frac{m}{s}##
##Δp=(11kg)\langle0,4\rangle\frac{m}{s}##
##p_f=p_0+Δp##
##||v_0||=||\frac{p_0}{m_0}||##
##p_f=m_0p_0+m_1Δp##
##(m_0+m_1)v_f=m_0p_0+m_1Δp##
##v_f=\frac{m_0p_0+m_1Δp}{m_0+m_1}##
##||v_f||=\frac{1}{m_0+m_1}||m_0p_0+m_1Δp||##

I'm thinking that since the x-distance from the starting point and the point of maximum height is the same as the distance from the vertex to the landing spot, the x-distance between the maximum heights of the trajectories is the same as the x-distance between their landing spots. Forgive me; the FBD I drew on paint isn't to scale. Anyway, the final answer would come out to:

##Δx=(\frac{sin2\theta_0}{g})(||v_f||^2-||v_0||^2)##

Only problem, is that: ##||v_f||<||v_0||##. So I'm thinking that I messed up around this point.

##p_f=m_0p_0+m_1Δp##
##(m_0+m_1)v_f=m_0p_0+m_1Δp##
##v_f=\frac{m_0p_0+m_1Δp}{m_0+m_1}##
##||v_f||=(\frac{1}{m_0+m_1})||m_0p_0+m_1Δp||##

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with the relations that I used?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hold on, I forgot something: If the two halteres are moving ##0\frac{m}{s}## relative to the ground, then I can assume that the long jumper throws them back with a velocity of ##-v_{0x}##.
 
Eclair_de_XII said:
p0=(78kg)⟨192,4⟩msp0=(78kg)⟨192,4⟩ms
Edit: Yeah, the quote kind of butchered it.

I don't know if the quote (above) will come out the same or not. In your initial momentum equation, it looks like you didn't include the mass of the two halterers. Also, I'm not familiar with your notation. Does the lift off velocity indicate that the x component is 9.5 m/s and the y component is 4 m/s?
Edit changed 8.5 m/s to 9.5 m/s
 
TomHart said:
Does the lift off velocity indicate that the x component is 9.5 m/s and the y component is 4 m/s?

That's the momentum if the the halteres were not included. And yes.
 
Eclair_de_XII said:
That's the momentum if the the halteres were not included.
Doesn't he have them in his hands when he lifts off?
 
You're right. In any case, I found the answer already. This is the equation describing the act of throwing the halteres.

##m_1v_{0x}=m_0(v_{0x}+(\frac{m_1}{m_0})v_{0x})=m_1v_{0x}=m_0(v_{0x})(1+\frac{m_1}{m_0})##

These are the equations to find the difference in horizontal range had the long jumper not used the halteres.

##x_0=(\frac{||v_0||^2}{g})(sin2\theta_0)##
##x_f=(\frac{||v_0||^2}{g})(sin2\theta_0)+(v_{0x})(\frac{m_1}{m_0})t##
##Δx=x_f-x_0=(v_{0x})(\frac{m_1}{m_0})t##

This is to find the unknown ##t## it takes for the jumper to land.

##0=v_{0y}-gt##
##t=\frac{v_{0y}}{g}##

Substitute in, and--

##Δx=(v_{0x})(\frac{m_1}{m_0})t=(v_{0x})(\frac{m_1}{m_0})(\frac{v_{0y}}{g})=0.55m=55cm##

Someone correct me if I am mistaken in my thought process.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
Replies
5
Views
7K
Replies
2
Views
2K