Human rights and the police (misconduct)

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Mr. Rodriguez, a gang member on parole, was detained for violating his parole and is under investigation for additional charges. The American Civil Liberties Union has called for the suspension of the police officer who kicked him while he was already subdued, labeling the act as police abuse. The incident has sparked debate about police conduct, with some arguing that the officer's actions were unjustifiable regardless of Rodriguez's criminal background. Concerns about rising police abuses have been raised, questioning whether such incidents are more visible now due to increased video documentation. The discussion emphasizes the need for accountability and proper conduct from law enforcement officers.
  • #101
AUMathTutor said:
"The point you are trying to make is a weak one. Apples and oranges here."

How on Earth is it a weak point? If this sort of behavior is sanctioned, it will only become more and more commonplace.

It's a weak point because you are trying to make the argument that he was running because he feared for his life from the police. The guy was running because he comitted a crime, not because he thought the police were randomly chasing him.

I don't know how, as a human being, the thought that the people who are sworn to protect us would just as soon beat the **** out of us doesn't make you angry, sad, or afraid. It doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's indefensible.

What do I care? He didn't beat the **** out of him, he kicked him. What makes me angry is when the police beat to death a suspect in custody (which happened here recently). This video doesn't anger me, but it's inappropriate on the officers part (and funny to watch).

Regardless of the legitimacy or legality of the alleged evasion, you cannot assault people with no consequences. I can't do it, the President of the US can't do it, and a street cop in LA can't do it either.

Do you know how to read what I write? Stop telling me what I posted myself. God that annoyes me when people do that. Sorry, but EUGHHHh. That gets under my skin.
 
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  • #102
WhoWee said:
More name calling?

This was your first post on the subject..."hAHAHAH he got rocked in the face. That officer is an idiot because now they guy is going to walk away from his crime. That cop should be fired."

Now you're upset because I made a funny.:zzz:

Im sorry, is there a point to your post?
 
  • #104
Huckleberry said:
Where does this us vs. them perspective come from between civilians and police? It's not uncommon that people don't trust police officers, but is it really because of incidents like this or is there some other cause? Do police look at every civilian as a potential criminal? Is that perspective something that develops for their safety, or is there something in the psychological profile of people that seek to become police officers that feeds off authority?
Many people come here from other countries and have tendancies toward certain cultural perceptions of authority figures. The police in Mexico are notoriously corrupt and in my experience (as I mentioned previously) mexican immigrants tend to be rather apologetic towards, and fearful of, authority figures. There are many different perceptions that I have come across: authority figures ought to be respected, respected and feared, distrusted and feared, ect.
Its a fairly rare perception that cops are donut dunking pigs not worth any respect or concern (another sort of us vs them) but its fairly common among white americans. I'm only a security guard but I have received far more abuse from white americans than any other demographic. Its gotten to the point that if a white person gives me any guff I immediately turn off the politeness, tell them how it is, and make sure they get the picture that I am not going to take any ****. From what I have seen this is the way that cops around here normally deal with any kind of people except that they often skip the polite phase.
 
  • #105
AUMathTutor said:
"Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread."

How did the police officer know that these weren't the reasons? Prove it.

You want me to prove your supposition?
 
  • #107
Cyrus said:
Remember what I said about responding to a bad post with an equally bad post?

You'll probably need to read all of the posts (that you didn't write) if you want to comprehend.
 
  • #108
Cyrus said:
Im sorry, is there a point to your post?

I'm clearly dismissing your childish name calling...that is my point.
 
  • #109
WhoWee said:
I don't recall Moat breaking the law to run away from the police.
Do you recall Moat being detained while black? When law-enforcement officers interact with the public, they do not treat everybody the same (based on the appearance of the person and the perception and prejudices of the officers). Remember Rodney King? There were enough police officers around him to subdue a bull, and instead of taking him in promptly, they beat the crap out of him.
 
  • #110
turbo-1 said:
Do you recall Moat being detained while black? When law-enforcement officers interact with the public, they do not treat everybody the same (based on the appearance of the person and the perception and prejudices of the officers). Remember Rodney King? There were enough police officers around him to subdue a bull, and instead of taking him in promptly, they beat the crap out of him.

That wasn't the point of the earlier post Turbo.

I originally responded to this by AUMathTutor
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things."
Then he was citing examples and Moat was brought into the discussion.

I'm looking for some local newsreports of Rodney King...in and around New Castle/Sharon PA...after he got his money...he's a real "class act".
 
  • #111
WhoWee said:
That wasn't the point of the earlier post Turbo.

I originally responded to this by AUMathTutor
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things."
Then he was citing examples and Moat was brought into the discussion.

I'm looking for some local newsreports of Rodney King...in and around New Castle/Sharon PA...after he got his money...he's a real "class act".
The point is that if I was speeding (I'm white) and a trooper stopped me (they may be all white in Maine, still) and I said "my father is dying" or "my wife's mother is dying", I would likely have gotten a high-speed escort to the hospital and not an extended detention because of "speeding while black". Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.
 
  • #112
turbo-1 said:
Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.

That might be because people in Maine act more like humans.
 
  • #113
turbo-1 said:
The point is that if I was speeding (I'm white) and a trooper stopped me (they may be all white in Maine, still) and I said "my father is dying" or "my wife's mother is dying", I would likely have gotten a high-speed escort to the hospital and not an extended detention because of "speeding while black". Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.

I agree with you...hold true in Ohio as well...except for the speeding of course (NEVER - EVER SPEED IN OHIO).
 
  • #114
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  • #115
mbisCool said:
This was just on the news.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/05/birmingham_police_beating_vide.html

This is quite alarming as multiple police officers join in beating the unconscious suspect. It wasn't until many months later when the video surfaced that the criminal found out he had been beaten. What is wrong with these people?

One problem I see is the headline:

Birmingham police beating video: Officers to be disciplined for beating unconscious man
You need to reform the criminals along with the police.
 
  • #116
rootX said:
One problem I see is the headline
What is the problem with that headline?
 
  • #117
rootX said:
You need to reform the criminals along with the police.

It is one in the same job because in this case, the police ARE criminals.

At least now, finally, the bad ones, which in this case was ALL of them, are [sometimes] getting caught. The brotherhood has always been far too self-serving.
 
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  • #119
I hope the guy driving the car gets life too though and doesn't walk because of his beatings.
 
  • #120
Cyrus said:
I hope the guy driving the car gets life too though and doesn't walk because of his beatings.

Life?

I thought you said you wanted fair trial. You just contradicted yourself.

Running from the cops doesn't give you life.
 
  • #121
JasonRox said:
Life?

I thought you said you wanted fair trial. You just contradicted yourself.

Running from the cops doesn't give you life.

It is fair. He ran from the police, endangered everyone around him including himself, and tried to kill a police officer using a car. Thats life.

I never contradicted myself.
 
  • #122
Cyrus said:
It is fair. He ran from the police, endangered everyone around him including himself, and tried to kill a police officer using a car. Thats life.

I never contradicted myself.

Normally you don't get life for much less than premeditated murder. And even then you can get less than life.
 
  • #123
TheStatutoryApe said:
Normally you don't get life for much less than premeditated murder. And even then you can get less than life.

Ok fair enough, the maximum sentence for his crime.
 
  • #124
Ivan Seeking said:
It is one in the same job because in this case, the police ARE criminals.

At least now, finally, the bad ones, which in this case was ALL of them, are [sometimes] getting caught. The brotherhood has always been far too self-serving.

Yes they all are criminals (if misconducting in the police department is equivalent to committing crime) by law, but I disagree that they all are bad. One type of the guys (I should point out who are humans - I don't know how you see the policemen but IMO they don't have extraordinary abilities.) are risking their lives so that the other type don't go and harm innocents.

Gokul43201 said:
What is the problem with that headline?

As usual, it only focuses on how the police is wrong.

As I said before, police is a profession like every other profession (and they are also being underpaid IMO for taking all the media and public BS). Most agree that is a tough profession.
 
  • #125
Cyrus said:
Ok fair enough, the maximum sentence for his crime.

I rather get kicked and punched like that guy did than serve life. Damn.

Kick me in the balls too.

Headbutt too.

Punch me in the chest too.

Add a few more too.

Bruises will go away after awhile. Much better than LIFE!
 
  • #126
JasonRox said:
I rather get kicked and punched like that guy did than serve life. Damn.

Kick me in the balls too.

Headbutt too.

Punch me in the chest too.

Add a few more too.

Bruises will go away after awhile. Much better than LIFE!

...okay? I revised what I said in light of StatApes comments. Can't you read? Agh, I'm going to beat you like those cops while ranting like Christian Bale.
 
  • #127
rootX said:
As usual, it only focuses on how the police is wrong.
Naturally! What do you think is more newsworthy: a criminal behaving criminally, or 5 police officers (probably many more, in this case) behaving criminally?
 
  • #128
JasonRox said:
Life?

I thought you said you wanted fair trial. You just contradicted yourself.

Running from the cops doesn't give you life.

He attempted to kill an officer standing in the roadwith his vehicle...before he was captured...that is why they beat him.
 
  • #129
WhoWee said:
He attempted to kill an officer standing in the roadwith his vehicle...before he was captured...that is why they beat him.

I think it is also because his vehicle rolled over when it got a side hit from the police car (in the video it looks like he had no intention to stop - unlike the one in OP who got out and started running).

I think they should hire guys who are not willing to go beyond their abilities to catch criminals. If it's too dangerous just leave it and let others die. Obviously, no one gets that angry when criminals kill other people so the police wouldn't have to hear all the BS.
 
  • #130
WhoWee said:
He attempted to kill an officer standing in the roadwith his vehicle...before he was captured...that is why they beat him.

To be clear, are you excusing what the officers did or trying to make the case for why he should get life?
 
  • #131
Cyrus said:
To be clear, are you excusing what the officers did or trying to make the case for why he should get life?

I'll clarify.

Being beaten while in custody...even if unconscious...does not excuse his earlier actions. The officers were wrong...AGAIN.

If the attempted vehicular homicide of the police officer is excused because he was beaten, every robbery suspect in America should start provoking the police into a beating...the original crime and (in this case) additional crimes committed during the commission of that crime need to be prosecuted fully.
 
  • #132
WhoWee said:
If the attempted vehicular homicide of the police officer ...
I think that charge, if it were attempted, would be thrown out irrespective of whether there was police misconduct. The defendant's intent could have been nothing more than of attempting to evade the spike strip deployed by the officer.
 
  • #133
How come it's still legal for my teachers and parents to beat me for even talking out of line but a cop can't beat a criminal for commiting a crime?

If I were a cop and someone tried to kill me I know when I caught up to that S-O-B I would beat them too.EDIT: After watching the video, lol, it was WAY too extensive. Like why do they need what 10 cops? punching him in the head when clearly he isn't even MOVING.
 
  • #134
Sorry! said:
How come it's still legal for my teachers and parents to beat me for even talking out of line but a cop can't beat a criminal for commiting a crime?

If I were a cop and someone tried to kill me I know when I caught up to that S-O-B I would beat them too.


EDIT: After watching the video, lol, it was WAY too extensive. Like why do they need what 10 cops? punching him in the head when clearly he isn't even MOVING.

Do you really not know the answer to your own question?
 
  • #135
Cyrus said:
Do you really not know the answer to your own question?

Well idk why a teacher can beat me for talking out of line but a cop can't beat me for shooting at him..
 
  • #136
Gokul43201 said:
I think that charge, if it were attempted, would be thrown out irrespective of whether there was police misconduct. The defendant's intent could have been nothing more than of attempting to evade the spike strip deployed by the officer.

By aiming his speeding vehicle in the direction of an officer...how about reckless endangerment?
 
  • #137
Should people who flee the police at least lose their driving priveliges...for life?
 
  • #138
Sorry! said:
Well idk why a teacher can beat me for talking out of line but a cop can't beat me for shooting at him..

Wow, that's sad.
 
  • #139
Cyrus said:
Wow, that's sad.

I guess, I think it's sad how whenever I see your posts how cynical you are over a forum lol.
 
  • #140
Sorry! said:
Well idk why a teacher can beat me for talking out of line but a cop can't beat me for shooting at him..

I can tell you from experience, in suburban Ohio middle schools in the late 1960's and 1970's...it was common practice to bouce "smart mouths" off of walls, lockers, chalk boards, door frames (you get the idea)...drag them into the hall (where everyone could hear) and "paddle" them with special boards...most 4" to 8" wide and up to 48" long, many painted with cute names and graphics, holes drilled for less wind resistance and/or to make a noise, special grips and/or a raw hide wrist band...and often signed by the recipients.

This method of discipline was the norm and parents RARELY objected. And YES...it hurt...only the knucleheads went back for repeats.
 
  • #141
Sorry! said:
Well idk why a teacher can beat me for talking out of line but a cop can't beat me for shooting at him..

I don't know where you live, but teachers can be arrested in AZ for beating a student. Parents can be arrested for beating their children.
 
  • #142
WhoWee said:
I can tell you from experience, in suburban Ohio middle schools in the late 1960's and 1970's...it was common practice to bouce "smart mouths" off of walls, lockers, chalk boards, door frames (you get the idea)...drag them into the hall (where everyone could hear) and "paddle" them with special boards...most 4" to 8" wide and up to 48" long, many painted with cute names and graphics, holes drilled for less wind resistance and/or to make a noise, special grips and/or a raw hide wrist band...and often signed by the recipients.

This method of discipline was the norm and parents RARELY objected. And YES...it hurt...only the knucleheads went back for repeats.

I just realized this "paddling" method was also used as an interrogation technique...threaten to strike...ask for a information...strike and wait for a response (after the scream)...repeat...were we subjected to torture?

I remember 1 guy took about 8 swats before he gave up his accomplice...who in turn got about 3 or 4 swats for letting his friend endure a beating.
 
  • #143
Sorry! said:
I guess, I think it's sad how whenever I see your posts how cynical you are over a forum lol.

My tolerance for bad posts is low. It comes with being on these forums for a long time. You loose patience when you see posts that are lazy, poorly worded, etc. The "idk" worked against you. I hate slang.

BTW, teachers can't beat you. I have no idea where you are getting your facts from?
 
  • #144
WhoWee said:
He attempted to kill an officer standing in the roadwith his vehicle...before he was captured...that is why they beat him.

So ...?

What you are describing is in direct opposition to the rule if Law.

It was Police Rage. The cops were out of control. They jumped in like a pack of animals. There was absolutely NO justification for their behavior. Fired is a good result for the cops. They should be thankful the DA wouldn't bring them up on criminal assault charges. They are lucky he didn't succumb to his injuries. That would be murder.

Besides, what did it accomplish? If he was unconscious what kind of lesson in deterrence is that? If the perp doesn't remember what you did, how is that effective street justice in any event? It was totally senseless. It was the police thinking they were above the Law. They are not.
 
  • #145
WhoWee said:
By aiming his speeding vehicle in the direction of an officer...how about reckless endangerment?
Being involved in a high speed car chase will already have landed him with a gazillion counts of reckless endangerment, wouldn't it?
 
  • #146
LowlyPion said:
So ...?

What you are describing is in direct opposition to the rule if Law.

It was Police Rage. The cops were out of control. They jumped in like a pack of animals. There was absolutely NO justification for their behavior. Fired is a good result for the cops. They should be thankful the DA wouldn't bring them up on criminal assault charges. They are lucky he didn't succumb to his injuries. That would be murder.

Besides, what did it accomplish? If he was unconscious what kind of lesson in deterrence is that? If the perp doesn't remember what you did, how is that effective street justice in any event? It was totally senseless. It was the police thinking they were above the Law. They are not.

I could care less if they are fired...this is different than the thread case. But the guy that almost ran the officer down needs to pay.
 
  • #147
Gokul43201 said:
Being involved in a high speed car chase will already have landed him with a gazillion counts of reckless endangerment, wouldn't it?

You and I both know it rarely works that way. I'll cite OJ again...not a single ticket for running a stop sign.
 
  • #148
WhoWee said:
You and I both know it rarely works that way. I'll cite OJ again...not a single ticket for running a stop sign.

Since he was found innocent of the murder in his criminal trial the time he spent in jail would probably count as time served for any crimes in connection to the chase. I have no idea if they actually tallied up the penalties and made any decision regarding this though. It was probably considered pointless and if they did I'm sure Cochran threatened to make any prosecution on the matter an ordeal. The prosecution generally drops lesser crimes to focus on the major ones, especially if they feel certain they will win.
 
  • #149
TheStatutoryApe said:
Since he was found innocent of the murder in his criminal trial the time he spent in jail would probably count as time served for any crimes in connection to the chase. I have no idea if they actually tallied up the penalties and made any decision regarding this though. It was probably considered pointless and if they did I'm sure Cochran threatened to make any prosecution on the matter an ordeal. The prosecution generally drops lesser crimes to focus on the major ones, especially if they feel certain they will win.

OJ wasn't driving.
 
  • #150
WhoWee said:
OJ wasn't driving.

Looked it up. There was a gun in the car and talk that he was supposedly holding it on the driver.
 

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