Human rights and the police (misconduct)

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Mr. Rodriguez, a gang member on parole, was detained for violating his parole and is under investigation for additional charges. The American Civil Liberties Union has called for the suspension of the police officer who kicked him while he was already subdued, labeling the act as police abuse. The incident has sparked debate about police conduct, with some arguing that the officer's actions were unjustifiable regardless of Rodriguez's criminal background. Concerns about rising police abuses have been raised, questioning whether such incidents are more visible now due to increased video documentation. The discussion emphasizes the need for accountability and proper conduct from law enforcement officers.
  • #91
"Yes...please name EVERY good reason to break the law and run from the police."

- Medical emergency
- Mental instability
- Someone was making him do it
- He knew one of the police officers, the officer had threatened to kill him while he was off duty, the guy recognized the cop and was driving to the police station / out of the county / etc.
 
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  • #92
AUMathTutor said:
I don't support the killing of police officers. But to be a police officer comes with certain risks and responsibilities. When you put on the uniform, you know that you might be killed. You accept that risk. You have a responsibility to protect and serve the public - before yourself.

Suspects of crimes have made no such commitment. By being in America, they agree to adhere to the law OR to be punished according to the law. Therefore, it is a violation of civil rights for a police officer to beat up a suspect.

I shudder to think what the world would be like if the law said it was alright for police officers to beat up suspects. So much for freedom and human rights.

Wait a minute...we might be onto something here...does that include all of the laws...immigration for instance?

Can you explain how that works?

If a Mexican citizen sneaks across the border...he's not yet IN the US...so he didn't knowingly break the law...then because he's here...he agrees to adhere to the law and turn himself in...is that right...and if he carried a few drugs across the border or had a gun fight with a rival gang...well, that's another issue...for the POLICE.
 
  • #93
AUMathTutor said:
"Yes...please name EVERY good reason to break the law and run from the police."

- Medical emergency
- Mental instability
- Someone was making him do it
- He knew one of the police officers, the officer had threatened to kill him while he was off duty, the guy recognized the cop and was driving to the police station / out of the county / etc.

People with medical emergencies should run from the police?
Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving.
Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?
:smile:And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?
 
  • #94
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things.

"Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving."
And police shouldn't be kicking people's teeth in...

"Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?"
If you're in a car and a guy is holding a gun to your head and says "drive", then I fail to see how you're breaking any laws by doing what you have to do to stay alive. Maybe the guy thought somebody was there with a gun to his head.

"And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?"
I just made it up, but reality is stranger than fiction. Do you think that a police officer somewhere in America has never threatened to kill somebody and actually done it, making it look like a legitimate police action? I wouldn't take that bet, and I doubt you would either.

Drugs put funny ideas into people's heads. If the guy was hallucinating, or had a reason to run, he doesn't deserve to get kicked. He has the right to tell his side of the story. That's what the court system is for.
 
  • #95
AUMathTutor said:
I don't know whether to be more afraid of drug dealers or the police. Oh, wait. No brainer. The drug dealers won't come into my house and beat me to death for no reason.

Drug addicts will rob a house or kill someone randomly for almost nothing, and that money goes straight to their dealers. Criminal actions by policemen against civilians are much rarer in comparison. It's just that these incidents get more attention because it is particularly repugnant when a person who is given authority to protect people uses that authority to harm or intimidate them.

Either way, criminal acts are rarely without reason. There is usually something to be gained or lost that inspires the criminal action whether the perpetrator is a law enforcement agent or not. Even when acting despite law or morality there is still the consideration of reward vs. risk.
 
  • #96
AUMathTutor said:
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things.

"Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving."
And police shouldn't be kicking people's teeth in...

"Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?"
If you're in a car and a guy is holding a gun to your head and says "drive", then I fail to see how you're breaking any laws by doing what you have to do to stay alive. Maybe the guy thought somebody was there with a gun to his head.

"And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?"
I just made it up, but reality is stranger than fiction. Do you think that a police officer somewhere in America has never threatened to kill somebody and actually done it, making it look like a legitimate police action? I wouldn't take that bet, and I doubt you would either.

Drugs put funny ideas into people's heads. If the guy was hallucinating, or had a reason to run, he doesn't deserve to get kicked. He has the right to tell his side of the story. That's what the court system is for.

Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread.
 
  • #97
"Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread."

How did the police officer know that these weren't the reasons? Prove it.

My issue isn't so much with this particular instance of police brutality, but with the general idea that police can assault suspects at their discretion. Maybe this guy was guilty as sin. But it's not the cop's job to judge the suspect.
 
  • #99
LowlyPion said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4017382

The Moats family, who are black, said they can't help but think that race might have played a part in the white officer's behavior.

... :smile:

(I haven't read it fully but it looks pretty similar to this one. Looks like Police officer is being blamed for everything. But so far from this story, I understand that I can break laws in case of emergencies and police need to understand that.)
 
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  • #100
Where does this us vs. them perspective come from between civilians and police? It's not uncommon that people don't trust police officers, but is it really because of incidents like this or is there some other cause? Do police look at every civilian as a potential criminal? Is that perspective something that develops for their safety, or is there something in the psychological profile of people that seek to become police officers that feeds off authority?

Here's a case where a police officer maces an employee at a McDonalds drive-thru because she short-changed him $10. That's the situation from the officer's perspective. The employees perspective is that the officer mistakenly gave her a $10 bill rather than a $20 and she made the correct change. I can't help but think that this entire incident, despite who is correct, is all about a dispute over $10. The officer becomes judge, jury and executioner. He's overstepped his authority.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Policeman-Pepper-Spray-Teen-For-Short-Change
 
  • #101
AUMathTutor said:
"The point you are trying to make is a weak one. Apples and oranges here."

How on Earth is it a weak point? If this sort of behavior is sanctioned, it will only become more and more commonplace.

It's a weak point because you are trying to make the argument that he was running because he feared for his life from the police. The guy was running because he comitted a crime, not because he thought the police were randomly chasing him.

I don't know how, as a human being, the thought that the people who are sworn to protect us would just as soon beat the **** out of us doesn't make you angry, sad, or afraid. It doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's indefensible.

What do I care? He didn't beat the **** out of him, he kicked him. What makes me angry is when the police beat to death a suspect in custody (which happened here recently). This video doesn't anger me, but it's inappropriate on the officers part (and funny to watch).

Regardless of the legitimacy or legality of the alleged evasion, you cannot assault people with no consequences. I can't do it, the President of the US can't do it, and a street cop in LA can't do it either.

Do you know how to read what I write? Stop telling me what I posted myself. God that annoyes me when people do that. Sorry, but EUGHHHh. That gets under my skin.
 
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  • #102
WhoWee said:
More name calling?

This was your first post on the subject..."hAHAHAH he got rocked in the face. That officer is an idiot because now they guy is going to walk away from his crime. That cop should be fired."

Now you're upset because I made a funny.:zzz:

Im sorry, is there a point to your post?
 
  • #104
Huckleberry said:
Where does this us vs. them perspective come from between civilians and police? It's not uncommon that people don't trust police officers, but is it really because of incidents like this or is there some other cause? Do police look at every civilian as a potential criminal? Is that perspective something that develops for their safety, or is there something in the psychological profile of people that seek to become police officers that feeds off authority?
Many people come here from other countries and have tendancies toward certain cultural perceptions of authority figures. The police in Mexico are notoriously corrupt and in my experience (as I mentioned previously) mexican immigrants tend to be rather apologetic towards, and fearful of, authority figures. There are many different perceptions that I have come across: authority figures ought to be respected, respected and feared, distrusted and feared, ect.
Its a fairly rare perception that cops are donut dunking pigs not worth any respect or concern (another sort of us vs them) but its fairly common among white americans. I'm only a security guard but I have received far more abuse from white americans than any other demographic. Its gotten to the point that if a white person gives me any guff I immediately turn off the politeness, tell them how it is, and make sure they get the picture that I am not going to take any ****. From what I have seen this is the way that cops around here normally deal with any kind of people except that they often skip the polite phase.
 
  • #105
AUMathTutor said:
"Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread."

How did the police officer know that these weren't the reasons? Prove it.

You want me to prove your supposition?
 
  • #107
Cyrus said:
Remember what I said about responding to a bad post with an equally bad post?

You'll probably need to read all of the posts (that you didn't write) if you want to comprehend.
 
  • #108
Cyrus said:
Im sorry, is there a point to your post?

I'm clearly dismissing your childish name calling...that is my point.
 
  • #109
WhoWee said:
I don't recall Moat breaking the law to run away from the police.
Do you recall Moat being detained while black? When law-enforcement officers interact with the public, they do not treat everybody the same (based on the appearance of the person and the perception and prejudices of the officers). Remember Rodney King? There were enough police officers around him to subdue a bull, and instead of taking him in promptly, they beat the crap out of him.
 
  • #110
turbo-1 said:
Do you recall Moat being detained while black? When law-enforcement officers interact with the public, they do not treat everybody the same (based on the appearance of the person and the perception and prejudices of the officers). Remember Rodney King? There were enough police officers around him to subdue a bull, and instead of taking him in promptly, they beat the crap out of him.

That wasn't the point of the earlier post Turbo.

I originally responded to this by AUMathTutor
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things."
Then he was citing examples and Moat was brought into the discussion.

I'm looking for some local newsreports of Rodney King...in and around New Castle/Sharon PA...after he got his money...he's a real "class act".
 
  • #111
WhoWee said:
That wasn't the point of the earlier post Turbo.

I originally responded to this by AUMathTutor
"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things."
Then he was citing examples and Moat was brought into the discussion.

I'm looking for some local newsreports of Rodney King...in and around New Castle/Sharon PA...after he got his money...he's a real "class act".
The point is that if I was speeding (I'm white) and a trooper stopped me (they may be all white in Maine, still) and I said "my father is dying" or "my wife's mother is dying", I would likely have gotten a high-speed escort to the hospital and not an extended detention because of "speeding while black". Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.
 
  • #112
turbo-1 said:
Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.

That might be because people in Maine act more like humans.
 
  • #113
turbo-1 said:
The point is that if I was speeding (I'm white) and a trooper stopped me (they may be all white in Maine, still) and I said "my father is dying" or "my wife's mother is dying", I would likely have gotten a high-speed escort to the hospital and not an extended detention because of "speeding while black". Cops in Maine have to work without a net lots of the time and backup may be a long time away, and they are bit more likely than some other states' troopers to act like humans.

I agree with you...hold true in Ohio as well...except for the speeding of course (NEVER - EVER SPEED IN OHIO).
 
  • #114
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  • #115
mbisCool said:
This was just on the news.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/05/birmingham_police_beating_vide.html

This is quite alarming as multiple police officers join in beating the unconscious suspect. It wasn't until many months later when the video surfaced that the criminal found out he had been beaten. What is wrong with these people?

One problem I see is the headline:

Birmingham police beating video: Officers to be disciplined for beating unconscious man
You need to reform the criminals along with the police.
 
  • #116
rootX said:
One problem I see is the headline
What is the problem with that headline?
 
  • #117
rootX said:
You need to reform the criminals along with the police.

It is one in the same job because in this case, the police ARE criminals.

At least now, finally, the bad ones, which in this case was ALL of them, are [sometimes] getting caught. The brotherhood has always been far too self-serving.
 
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  • #119
I hope the guy driving the car gets life too though and doesn't walk because of his beatings.
 
  • #120
Cyrus said:
I hope the guy driving the car gets life too though and doesn't walk because of his beatings.

Life?

I thought you said you wanted fair trial. You just contradicted yourself.

Running from the cops doesn't give you life.
 

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