Hydroxide as a leaving group-Aldol

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of the hydroxyl group as a leaving group during the Aldol condensation reaction, exploring the mechanisms involved and the conditions under which hydroxide can leave. The scope includes theoretical aspects of organic chemistry and mechanistic reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the ability of the hydroxyl group to act as a leaving group, noting that it is generally considered a poor leaving group.
  • Another participant explains that dehydration occurs due to stability from conjugation, leading to the formation of a beta unsaturated carbonyl compound, and describes the mechanism involving a concentrated base.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the stabilization of the hydroxyl group once it leaves, questioning whether it is stabilized by a cation counterpart like Na+.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the formation of the β-unsaturated product, indicating that it is not formed instantaneously and can occur through acid or base catalyzed pathways, both involving the formation of water molecules.
  • One participant acknowledges their understanding of the mechanism after the discussion, noting the previously unclear role of γ hydrogens in the process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanism of hydroxyl elimination and the conditions required for the formation of the β-unsaturated product. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of stabilization after hydroxyl elimination.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various mechanisms (E1-CB and acid/base catalyzed) and conditions (concentrated vs. dilute base) without reaching a consensus on the implications of these differences for the overall reaction.

brake4country
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Just out of curiosity, during an Aldol condensation, how is it possible for the hydroxyl group to leave? I thought that OH is a bad leaving group. Thanks in advance!
 
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Not exactly. Dehydration takes place. This is because of stability due to conjugation. The product formed is a beta unsaturated carbonyl compound and the C=O and C=C are in conjugation.
Also, the reagent is a concentrated base. Hence the OH- from base gets protonated by taking a hygrogen from beta carbon and this causes elimination of OH like E1-CB mechanism.
 
Oh I see. My book did not specify concentrated base. I do see in the mechanism that the OH abstracts a proton from the alpha carbon, creating the C=C double bond. However, what happens when the OH is kicked off? Is it stabilized by its cation counterpart (i.e, Na+)?
 
The β-unsaturated product is not formed instantaneously. It is not truly a part of the reaction. The actual product is aldol.

There are 2 ways for getting β-unsaturated product:
1)acid catalyzed (using dil. sulphuric acid)
2)base catalyzed(requires heating)

Both the reactions involve formation of water molecules.
You know acid catalyzed dehydration. In the second reaction, OH is eliminated only after the formation of carbanion, while in the first case, OH is eliminated before the formation of carbocation.
brake4country said:
what happens when the OH is kicked off? Is it stabilized by its cation counterpart
You are talking about the acid catalysed dehydration. Once the OH is eliminated as H20 from the γ-Carbon, then according to saytzeff rule, a double bond is formed between β-carbon and γ-carbon.
 
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I finally understand now. Thank you for explaining this! My book did not clarify the role of the γ hydrogens but this makes more sense.
 

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