I got kicked out of graduate school. Can I ever get back in?

[Chronos]

Nothing speaks of performance like performance, I agree with mapes. Many people fail on their first try. Few show enough initiative to recognize and correct their errors. That speaks volumes about a persons character. I suggest recruiting a sympathetic sponsor at the grad school of your choice. If you can convince them of the reason and effectiveness of action taken to correct your initial lack of performance, you have a leg up on the process. At very worst you may get a favorable recommendation for another grad school.

 

[twofish-quant]

Many people fail on their first try. Few show enough initiative to recognize and correct their errors.

On other other hand, sometimes the way to win is to give up and do something different.

If the OP's question was "Come hell or high water, I'm getting my physics Ph.D., how do I do it?" that's a very different question from "I don't know what to do, and I'm exploring my options."

Getting a physics Ph.D. under ideal conditions is a painful, brutal experience, and you aren't realistically going to expect anything in the end except getting the Ph.D. If you have already been kicked out, it's going to be ten times as hard. If you are absolutely committed doing it, that's something that I admire. On the other hand, if you have any doubts about it, then maybe it's a good idea to just do something else.

I suggest recruiting a sympathetic sponsor at the grad school of your choice. If you can convince them of the reason and effectiveness of action taken to correct your initial lack of performance, you have a leg up on the process. At very worst you may get a favorable recommendation for another grad school.

This is a good strategy, but there is a huge catch. If someone goes to bat for you, then you owe them. You owe them a lot. If you bother someone and ask for them to put their time and reputation on the line for you, then it is absolutely essential that you make them look good. If you ask someone to write recommendation letters and serve as your champion, and then you screw up again, you've not only screwed over yourself but someone else.

It's a tiny community, and if someone puts their reputation and credibility on the line for you and it blows up, then people will remember that.

If someone writes a massively favorable recommendation for you, and you blow up, it's going to kill the credibility of any recommendations they write for other people. Conversely, any professor is going to think twice about going to bat for you if they are not convinced that it's worth it. If you are totally committed to getting the Ph.D. and will go through hell to do it, you may find someone to help you, but if you aren't, people are going to be reluctant to help you because they will get plastered if you blow up.

 

[Mistake]

If the OP's question was "Come hell or high water, I'm getting my physics Ph.D., how do I do it?" that's a very different question from "I don't know what to do, and I'm exploring my options."

The reason I didn't say that is because a Ph.D. is a piece of paper. My goal is to do research and development in cutting-edge technology and science for a living. I do not merely want to create the next line of cell phones for the rest of my life. I assume that getting a Ph.D. in physics is the best way to attain this goal. But if it's not, then I'd like to know some other options.

Getting a physics Ph.D. under ideal conditions is a painful, brutal experience, and you aren't realistically going to expect anything in the end except getting the Ph.D. If you have already been kicked out, it's going to be ten times as hard. If you are absolutely committed doing it, that's something that I admire. On the other hand, if you have any doubts about it, then maybe it's a good idea to just do something else.

The only thing I have doubts about is whether or not it's even possible to be admitted. The reason I said "I'm not hell-bent on getting my physics PhD" is because if it turned out I can't get another chance, then I'd have to shoot myself, as my life would be over. I have nothing else going for me. There is nothing I'd rather do more than go back to grad school. I already work at a lab doing the same work a grad student does and getting paid the same amount. I just won't get a degree out of it, so I can't stick around.

 

[timsea81]

You got in the first time, just submit your application to a different school, and leave out the transcripts from the program you failed out of.

 

[symbolipoint]

The reason I didn't say that is because a Ph.D. is a piece of paper. My goal is to do research and development in cutting-edge technology and science for a living. I do not merely want to create the next line of cell phones for the rest of my life. I assume that getting a Ph.D. in physics is the best way to attain this goal. But if it's not, then I'd like to know some other options.



The only thing I have doubts about is whether or not it's even possible to be admitted. The reason I said "I'm not hell-bent on getting my physics PhD" is because if it turned out I can't get another chance, then I'd have to shoot myself, as my life would be over. I have nothing else going for me. There is nothing I'd rather do more than go back to grad school. I already work at a lab doing the same work a grad student does and getting paid the same amount. I just won't get a degree out of it, so I can't stick around.

Maybe you do not need a phd in physics. You want to go to school, then do it; but you do not need to reach a phd program to learn. Maybe just some upper level and graduate level courses (including some lab sections) will give you enough of what you need.

You got in the first time, just submit your application to a different school, and leave out the transcripts from the program you failed out of.

The member may still need to give transcripts of all institutions he attended in order to give proof of prerequisite credit for courses, or to... ?
... sure. Some courses he can repeat at the new institution if he feels he should hide any work done from the phd program from which he failed. (maybe other advice is useful about this?)

 

[Mistake]

You got in the first time, just submit your application to a different school, and leave out the transcripts from the program you failed out of.

I was explicitly warned against doing this by the person who basically told me to withdraw from the university. The idea is that telling or not telling them this information affects their decision to accept or reject me. If later on they found out I didn't disclose this information, they can kick me out even if I'm half way through their graduate program.

 

[twofish-quant]

My goal is to do research and development in cutting-edge technology and science for a living. I do not merely want to create the next line of cell phones for the rest of my life. I assume that getting a Ph.D. in physics is the best way to attain this goal. But if it's not, then I'd like to know some other options.

The problem with the physics Ph.D. is that you'll be doing science for five to eight years, but after you get your Ph.D., you'll be really happy if someone gives you a job creating the next line of cell phones, because that's as close to doing science as you can get.

After you finish your Ph.d., there are extremely strong odds that you'll be done more or less what you would have been doing had you not done the Ph.D. If you want to do the Ph.D., it needs to be a goal in itself, and you have to face the reality that there is a good chance that the years you spend doing the Ph.D. will be the only time in your life that you are doing science.

The reason I said "I'm not hell-bent on getting my physics PhD" is because if it turned out I can't get another chance, then I'd have to shoot myself, as my life would be over. I have nothing else going for me.

There are lots of people in the world that have had their dreams crushed and survived. You deal with it and move on with your life. The fact that you may fail (or the fact that you will fail) is not necessarily an argument against doing something.

There is nothing I'd rather do more than go back to grad school. I already work at a lab doing the same work a grad student does and getting paid the same amount. I just won't get a degree out of it, so I can't stick around.

The thing is that you won't be able to stick around even if you do get the Ph.D.

 

[twofish-quant]

You got in the first time, just submit your application to a different school, and leave out the transcripts from the program you failed out of.

This isn't going to work. The first thing that people look for is a gap in time, and if they find one, they'll assume the worst.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You got in the first time, just submit your application to a different school, and leave out the transcripts from the program you failed out of.

Worst. Advice. Ever.

If you get caught at this - and you will - it's career ending.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I do not merely want to create the next line of cell phones for the rest of my life.

Why do you think that's not what you will be doing with a PhD in physics? Two students I supervised went on to do exactly that. One works doing something or other with antennas, and the other with improving robustness with respect to noise.

 

[SophusLies]

Why do you think that's not what you will be doing with a PhD in physics? Two students I supervised went on to do exactly that. One works doing something or other with antennas, and the other with improving robustness with respect to noise.

Exactly. There are many real world problems that need good physicists to tackle. I wish more younger people would understand this.

 

[Mistake]

Why do you think that's not what you will be doing with a PhD in physics?

I don't know. I assumed that if I spend 5-7 years working on something like carbon nanotubes, quantum computing, superconductors, or what have you, then that's the kind of thing I'd be working on when I found a job. Why in the hell would I just assume that spending 5-7 years doing cutting edge research in a specific field would mean I end up working on electrical gadgets with 2% increased efficiency?

I mean, if my goal is to eventually work my way up to working on something meaningful, what's the best way to do it?

 

[Pyrrhus]

It's a demand and supply problem.

Nobody is willing to pay thousands of PhD Physics to research X, so you may not find a job doing X. That's what it is.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Verizon spends $44B a year on their wireless network. If you can save them 2%, that's serious money. They are willing to hire a bunch of people under the hopes that they might save 2%.

You should recognize that the most common career path of physics PhDs is to go into industry where they can make someone (perhaps themselves) some money. Continuing to do research that is of academic interest is the exception.

 

[atyy]

It is possible to flunk out of grad school in biology due to failing course work, take time off, and get accepted to another good grad school if your research was good, your former supervisor recognized it and is willing to write a strong recommendation.

OTOH, there are many other worthwhile things to do other than grad school.

 

[AlephZero]

Why in the hell would I just assume that spending 5-7 years doing cutting edge research in a specific field would mean I end up working on electrical gadgets with 2% increased efficiency?

I mean, if my goal is to eventually work my way up to working on something meaningful, what's the best way to do it?

What you finish up doing depends on how good you REALLY are. Many people doing "research" at PhD level are not doiing much more than filling in a gap in the conventional existing framework of scientific knowledge. That not much different from tweaking an existing cellphone design to make it 2% more efficient IMO.

On the other hand, if you REALLY have the same amount of creative imagination as the late Steve Jobs, there's no reason why you shouldn't finish up as well known. But remember that of every 1,000,000 people who think they have that level of talent, at least 999,999 of them are wrong.

I assumed that if I spend 5-7 years working on something like carbon nanotubes, quantum computing, superconductors, or what have you, then that's the kind of thing I'd be working on when I found a job.

Making that sort of assumption might indicate the sort of one-track-mind that hasn't really got what it takes to do more than "fill in the gaps".

Of course there is lots of work for "one-track-minds" to do, and they can make a good living from doing it. You just need to figure out some REALISTIC expectiations of what you are going to achieve in life.

 

[phoenix:\\]

But remember that of every 1,000,000 people who think they have that level of talent, at least 999,999 of them are wrong

Everyone has the talent but not everyone knows how to utilize their own abilities due to a many number of factors. Those 1 in a 1,000,000 have figured out a way to best establish themselves and think differently from the herd b/c of a many number of factors.

I don't see why you would trust someone straight out of Undergraduate over someone that failed grad school but afterward showed they did work above the course work they failed. Doesn't that show character doesn't that mean anything to you?

You'd believe a person who hasn't proven himself when attempting, but not give someone who really wants a shot and has proven him/her -self within the work they've done in undergrad, an opportunity? I find that extremely unfair.

To respond to the OP, I am still wondering why you failed the classes?

To me, I think it would depend on why, but at the graduate level that looks horrible. A counsel can understand an undergraduate failing out, but then coming back and acing his/her classes but a graduate student? You might want to try your PhD at relatively unknown school if you really want it or just go into a different field but closely related to the field you're interested in.

 

[Highway]

I know two people, one was a TA (at the time) and the other a full professor who left PhD programs at CMU (two different fields), and ended up graduating from Pitt later on, but, I'm almost certain that they were passing their classes and didn't like the program / environment.

You really might want to work in a lab somewhere doing research at a school, getting published and to know a professor well, demonstrate good research, and taking classes on the side before trying to take a second run at things -- it might help you find an area you like and want to focus on.