I joined is because I want to educate myself

[Evo]

Since this theread is about mental issues, I have moved it.

 

[Nano-Passion]

Oddly, I take Adderall INSTANT release and it IS very smooth throughout the day. I don't feel a spike in activity or attention or anything. It only lasts 4 hours for some people so I wonder how it lasts so long for me... oh and if I have an off day (which the psychiatrist recommends every week so I don't develop tolerance) my mood will be poor that day and the day after, like it takes a while to build up or something. It made my mood worse when I started it, and then after a while I got used to that effect and it made my mood better, but now it's like if I skip a day I have to reset my mood again. I'll ask about splitting a pill between two days instead of just skipping one...

Vyvanse I fear will be too slow-release for me, seeing that Adderall is unusually slow for me; however, after looking up the differences in effects between levo- and dextroamphetamine I find that the levo- enantiomer is noradrenergic while the dextro- enantiomer is dopaminergic, and my experience with Strattera suggests that I don't need any more norepinephrine; indeed, the slight noradrenergic effect of Adderall might be why I react badly to a larger than small dose. Vyvanse, on the other hand, only metabolizes into dextroamphetamine so it would have more selectively dopaminergic activity on me, and with less noradrenergic activity it might actually improve my concentration (recall that Strattera made my concentration worse, much worse, which suggests that the norepinephrine is making my concentration worse) and thus I would be able to take the optimum dose for the level of dopamine I need without overdoing it on the norepinephrine. Yes the conflict of dopamine versus norepinephrine activity would explain why I report that Adderall makes my concentration better and worse at the same time.

However, the slow action effect of Vyvanse makes me reconsider... either dissolve it in something that hydrolyzes the amphetamine from the lysine, or just get a prescription for Dexedrine instead... I am very curious as to what is so different/unique about my physiology that the Adderall has that kind of long slow effect on me? As a matter of fact I think my concentration is better in the evening though I take it in the morning.

What slow action effect of Vyvanse are you worried about exactly? Do you mean that it doesn't feel as intense as Adderall IR or because it can last up to 14 hours, which by the way is not a bad thing! Taken at the proper dosage, you should get similar affects to Adderall (minus the intense feeling) while it lasts much much longer.

Vyvanse isn't weak, see the reviewshttp://www.drugs.com/comments/lisdexamfetamine/vyvanse-for-attention-deficit-disorder.html.

either dissolve it in something that hydrolyzes the amphetamine from the lysine, or just get a prescription for Dexedrine instead

Why would you want to do that? So that it effects you faster? Vyvanse should take you somewhere between 1 to 2 hours to kick in. Just take it first thing in the morning before your morning meal (you'll be fine) and it will kick in before your day starts.

I am very curious as to what is so different/unique about my physiology that the Adderall has that kind of long slow effect on me? As a matter of fact I think my concentration is better in the evening though I take it in the morning

Could it be your diet? What do you eat in the morning as opposed to the afternoon? Adderall is drastically affected by your PH level, so if you have an acid breakfeast than it won't work well at all. You might be following it with a lunch that has more base than acid afterwards (before it is too late). There is an exact science behind this all but its really hard to break down because it isn't my field at all. I'll just give a quick quote from Wikipedia for the basics.

Adderall's effects are similar to other CNS stimulants of the same class and preparation. (See amphetamine for details.)

Urinary and stomach pH levels can have a strong effect on DL-amphetamine excretion and absorption.[28] An acidic stomach and GI pH will decrease the absorption of Adderall,[12] and acidic urine levels will decrease the reabsorption of the drug through the renal system.[29] Co-administration of acidic substances (e.g., citric acid) causes decreased renal reabsorption of DL-amphetamine; whereas, alkaline agents (e.g., antacids) may cause a marked increase in renal tubular reabsorption. The increased reabsorption can increase the retention of amphetamines, with potential to result in dangerously high serum levels.[29]

You should note in contrast that Vyvanse isn't plagued by the same problem as this. Which leaves it with the potential to be much more potent in comparison to someone who usually has a lower PH level. However, the reabsorption of the Lisdexamfetamine is affected by your urine PH level, and that is what dictates how long the drug will last in your system. So if you want it to last the full 14 hours than you should have a more base filled diet, for lack of better words.

 

[Nano-Passion]

I have also been thinking about the N-body problem... I am probably very ignorant here... perhaps if, instead of tracking the motion of the bodies themselves, we tracked the motion of the centers of mass? Now I know that such a system has only ONE center of mass, but say we viewed it as each body having the force at anyone instant pulling it in a different direction... the lines along these directions of force for each body don't all intersect at the same point if the bodies have different masses, do they?

Or never mind that... let's say there is for each body there is an equation of motion, that is a function of the initial positions, velocities, forces, etc. of each of the other bodies, and we can regard it as a virtual particle that the corresponding body is gravitationally drawn toward but that isn't gravitationally drawn toward said body itself, it would be some sort of tractrix equation?

And perhaps one would have to invent new laws of motion to describe the movement of these "virtual particles", one for each body, such that each body's motion can be traced as just a function of following that particle around and it will come out the same as if you worked out the physics through repeated Euler method and such to find out where each of the particles would wind up (I actually stumbled upon the Euler method while thinking of how this would work, without having studied it before; I was studying differential equations instead of the lower classes I was taking at the community college and I paid for it afterward) and well... maybe a generalized solution for the N-body problem in such a way? And it would require some laws that explain how the virtual particles move in relation to each other... maybe they would sort of fall down toward each other... sorry if this makes no sense...

I'm lost after you started referring to them as virtual particles. I'm only an undergrad studying classical mechanics so I don't have any answers but just a couple of suggestions.

Start here to get the general idea behind it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-body_problem . It seems that the general method for the n body problem is an approximation, not quite using Euler's method but by taylor's expansion.

For starters, go to chapter 8 "Two-Body Central-Force Problems" from Taylor's Classical Mechanics book (very good book!). Study that chapter well then try to apply whatever creative method comes to mind. At this point, words are meaningless, the math will do the talking! Your method has a very high change of being more complicated or maybe even not work at all, after all this problem has been around for centuries. But you will grow way more by being taking the wrong turns and applying your creativity than you do by just following the book.

 

[CosmicKitten]

What slow action effect of Vyvanse are you worried about exactly? Do you mean that it doesn't feel as intense as Adderall IR or because it can last up to 14 hours, which by the way is not a bad thing! Taken at the proper dosage, you should get similar affects to Adderall (minus the intense feeling) while it lasts much much longer.

Vyvanse isn't weak, see the reviewshttp://www.drugs.com/comments/lisdexamfetamine/vyvanse-for-attention-deficit-disorder.html.



Why would you want to do that? So that it effects you faster? Vyvanse should take you somewhere between 1 to 2 hours to kick in. Just take it first thing in the morning before your morning meal (you'll be fine) and it will kick in before your day starts.



Could it be your diet? What do you eat in the morning as opposed to the afternoon? Adderall is drastically affected by your PH level, so if you have an acid breakfeast than it won't work well at all. You might be following it with a lunch that has more base than acid afterwards (before it is too late). There is an exact science behind this all but its really hard to break down because it isn't my field at all. I'll just give a quick quote from Wikipedia for the basics.



You should note in contrast that Vyvanse isn't plagued by the same problem as this. Which leaves it with the potential to be much more potent in comparison to someone who usually has a lower PH level. However, the reabsorption of the Lisdexamfetamine is affected by your urine PH level, and that is what dictates how long the drug will last in your system. So if you want it to last the full 14 hours than you should have a more base filled diet, for lack of better words.

No I mean instant release Adderall lasts longer and works slower for me than extended release Adderall world for other people, so I imagine Vyvanse will take a ridiculously long time to work. A 5 mg Adderall IR lasts for me ALL DAY and in fact is not very effective unless I've been taking it for the past two days at least. I tend not to eat much in the mornings, usually just a cup of valerian tea (which is also needed to help my mood, see, it works like a mild mood stabilizer instead of putting me to sleep, in fact if I drink it before bed I stay up half the night with happy dreamy giddy thoughts.) If I do eat something its usually a smoked salmon croissant with cheese on it. The medicine has a powerful effect on my appetite, see, I dropped from 130 to 112 in two months. Other than that I eat mostly frozen yogurt with fresh fruit, sushi, cheese, chocolate, tuna pasta, and coffee because the caffeine helps my mood as well.

Like I said it improves my mood but my attention I'm not sure about, likely because of the norepinephrine.

 

[Nano-Passion]

No I mean instant release Adderall lasts longer and works slower for me than extended release Adderall world for other people, so I imagine Vyvanse will take a ridiculously long time to work. A 5 mg Adderall IR lasts for me ALL DAY and in fact is not very effective unless I've been taking it for the past two days at least. I tend not to eat much in the mornings, usually just a cup of valerian tea (which is also needed to help my mood, see, it works like a mild mood stabilizer instead of putting me to sleep, in fact if I drink it before bed I stay up half the night with happy dreamy giddy thoughts.) If I do eat something its usually a smoked salmon croissant with cheese on it. The medicine has a powerful effect on my appetite, see, I dropped from 130 to 112 in two months. Other than that I eat mostly frozen yogurt with fresh fruit, sushi, cheese, chocolate, tuna pasta, and coffee because the caffeine helps my mood as well.

Like I said it improves my mood but my attention I'm not sure about, likely because of the norepinephrine.

Adderall IR lasts longer for you probably because of your alkaline level. I expect the people your comparing it too have a low PH level.

I expect adderall IR to last about max 6 hours. How many hours does it last for you?

You say that you expect Vyvanse to take a ridiculously long time to work. What leads you to that conclusion? It should take about 1 hour on an empty stomach. Please explain your reasoning or give a citation to support your hypothesis. [ Edit: Do you mean that Vyvanse will work for a long time, not take a long time to work? ]

110 pounds is very unhealthy. What is your height if you don't mind? There are some things that will help you tremendously with your caloric intake. One thing that you can buy is a weightgainer. This is the best and cheapest one out there http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/sm.html

I use weightgainers to maintain my body weight as well, as it doesn't curve your appetite too much. Just take half a scoop and 2 cups of milk a day and you should be getting about 800 calories from that. Did I mention it is quite delicious? Tastes like chocolate milk (I would recommend not to buy the strawberry or vanilla powder). You can also add a tablespoon of peanut butter to it for more calories and for a more mouthwatering drink.

 

[CosmicKitten]

That sounds chemically impossible. You might be confusing that intense feeling from Adderall IR a an indication of it working. That isn't the correct correlation. You will notice it less when Adderall XR but you will still have noticeable affects on your focus.

I expect adderall IR to last about max 6 hours. How many hours does it last for you?

You say that you expect Vyvanse to take a ridiculously long time to work. What leads you to that conclusion? It should take about 1 hour on an empty stomach. Please explain your reasoning or give a citation to support your hypothesis.

110 pounds is very unhealthy. What is your height if you don't mind? There are some things that will help you tremendously with your caloric intake. One thing that you can buy is a weightgainer. This is the best and cheapest one out there http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/sm.html

I use weightgainers to maintain my body weight as well, as it doesn't curve your appetite too much. Just take half a scoop and 2 cups of milk a day and you should be getting about 800 calories from that. Did I mention it is quite delicious? Tastes like chocolate milk (I would recommend not to buy the strawberry or vanilla powder). You can also add a tablespoon of peanut butter to it for more calories and for a more mouthwatering drink.

I don't feel any sharp, sudden effects from Adderall at all. In fact, it doesn't completely wear off until later in the day after I take it, when my mood will become burnt out and bad if I don't take a pill that morning, and it will still be bad through the next day even if I take the pill that morning. So it would appear I need to have it in my system for an entire day before the positive mood effects happen. My mood doesn't get severe withdrawal bad, mind you, it just goes back to being as bad as it was before I began it -- I would flipflop between hyper and angry/sad/crying before I started taking it, now I'm just happy all the time but not too happy, unless I have good reason not to be, and no more or less hyper than before.

So obviously there is something aberrant about my physiology that causes me to absorb and use it slower. I recall reading about other people that require only a small dose and it lasts very long for them. I don't know how and if I did I might be able to tell exactly how Vyvanse would metabolize.

I am five foot five and I checked, my BMI is on the border between normal and underweight. It's because of my strange tastes; all I ever want to eat is frozen soft serve tart yogurt, which is too low in fat. I should eat more meat, smoked salmon, etc but they make it so damn expensive, no wonder everybody is going diabetic! Oh and I find that I have no appetite for vegetable proteins such as soy, peanut butter, nuts etc, I think meat is a better source of protein for me. Some people metabolize that kind of protein better.

 

[CosmicKitten]

I'm lost after you started referring to them as virtual particles. I'm only an undergrad studying classical mechanics so I don't have any answers but just a couple of suggestions.

Start here to get the general idea behind it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-body_problem . It seems that the general method for the n body problem is an approximation, not quite using Euler's method but by taylor's expansion.

For starters, go to chapter 8 "Two-Body Central-Force Problems" from Taylor's Classical Mechanics book (very good book!). Study that chapter well then try to apply whatever creative method comes to mind. At this point, words are meaningless, the math will do the talking! Your method has a very high change of being more complicated or maybe even not work at all, after all this problem has been around for centuries. But you will grow way more by being taking the wrong turns and applying your creativity than you do by just following the book.

What level undergrad classical mechanics?

Well I was just letting my thoughts wander while reading Differential Equations Demystified and I don't know how I came to thinking about the N-body problem, but I thought about some sort of tractrix equation that would cause the derivative to always be pointing toward a moving target... But I had no idea how to formulate something like that. And well after just thinking about it I thought about calculating the motion of the bodies, only taking the motion of all the others as still while calculating the others for simplicity, over a small time step, and then for the next time step taking the new positions and repeating, and suppose taking the limit as you sum all of these up as the number of time steps goes to infinity. What kind of equation, if any, would you get out of that? I found out later that the first part of that is what is called the Euler method.

I find that Demystified is a very ADHD friendly book series. Schaums on the other hand is quite the opposite...

 

[Nano-Passion]

I don't feel any sharp, sudden effects from Adderall at all. In fact, it doesn't completely wear off until later in the day after I take it, when my mood will become burnt out and bad if I don't take a pill that morning, and it will still be bad through the next day even if I take the pill that morning. So it would appear I need to have it in my system for an entire day before the positive mood effects happen. My mood doesn't get severe withdrawal bad, mind you, it just goes back to being as bad as it was before I began it -- I would flipflop between hyper and angry/sad/crying before I started taking it, now I'm just happy all the time but not too happy, unless I have good reason not to be, and no more or less hyper than before.

So obviously there is something aberrant about my physiology that causes me to absorb and use it slower. I recall reading about other people that require only a small dose and it lasts very long for them. I don't know how and if I did I might be able to tell exactly how Vyvanse would metabolize.

I am five foot five and I checked, my BMI is on the border between normal and underweight. It's because of my strange tastes; all I ever want to eat is frozen soft serve tart yogurt, which is too low in fat. I should eat more meat, smoked salmon, etc but they make it so damn expensive, no wonder everybody is going diabetic! Oh and I find that I have no appetite for vegetable proteins such as soy, peanut butter, nuts etc, I think meat is a better source of protein for me. Some people metabolize that kind of protein better.

I would be immensely interested in having an explanation for this. In fact, it actually bothers me that I don't have an explanation for this "anomaly" lol.

At 5'5 your weight isn't too bad. I would be really concerned if you were say 6'0 with that body mass.

Also one more thing, the weightgainer contains whey protein, protein that is made from milk. It also has some of its protein from eggs if I remember correctly. Both of which makes for an extremely high absorption rate. Just "an FYI" though, everyone has different taste of course so your free to consume whatever you want. :)

What level undergrad classical mechanics?

Well I was just letting my thoughts wander while reading Differential Equations Demystified and I don't know how I came to thinking about the N-body problem, but I thought about some sort of tractrix equation that would cause the derivative to always be pointing toward a moving target... But I had no idea how to formulate something like that. And well after just thinking about it I thought about calculating the motion of the bodies, only taking the motion of all the others as still while calculating the others for simplicity, over a small time step, and then for the next time step taking the new positions and repeating, and suppose taking the limit as you sum all of these up as the number of time steps goes to infinity. What kind of equation, if any, would you get out of that? I found out later that the first part of that is what is called the Euler method.

I find that Demystified is a very ADHD friendly book series. Schaums on the other hand is quite the opposite...

Just classical mechanics I, the normal class you would take as a junior.

And someone else can better help you here, you should post it on the classical mechanics section. After all, I know next to nothing about the N-body problem.

I looked up Demystified, the series is very different than Schaums. I expected to scoff at it, but after checking out the preview in Amazon I have to say that it isn't bad at all. In fact, I like its style.

 

[CosmicKitten]

I would be immensely interested in having an explanation for this. In fact, it actually bothers me that I don't have an explanation for this "anomaly" lol.

At 5'5 your weight isn't too bad. I would be really concerned if you were say 6'0 with that body mass.

Also one more thing, the weightgainer contains whey protein, protein that is made from milk. It also has some of its protein from eggs if I remember correctly. Both of which makes for an extremely high absorption rate. Just "an FYI" though, everyone has different taste of course so your free to consume whatever you want. :)



Just classical mechanics I, the normal class you would take as a junior.

And someone else can better help you here, you should post it on the classical mechanics section. After all, I know next to nothing about the N-body problem.

I looked up Demystified, the series is very different than Schaums. I expected to scoff at it, but after checking out the preview in Amazon I have to say that it isn't bad at all. In fact, I like its style.

Oh well I should be taking THAT class, not the crappy one at that school I went to that I aced without even studying or paying attention or doing homework. It was first year, go figure... All stuff they conveniently assume you've forgotten in high school unless you took a bought and paid for AP test. As for 'calculus-based', well that's a joke, like the fact that you put an integral mark next to the basic work formula is supposed to make it any harder to solve. Honestly I see no point in teaching physics until they teach you more math... I have so far found all of it very easy, like simple algebra in disguise, I can even figure out problems I've never done before in the time given to take the test... And all those dumb engineering majors were failing but for the overgenerous grading curve...

Oh yes Schaums was hard to follow. I just barely made sense of their book on PDE's before I switched to another one and found it far clearer. I still have a hard time paying attention though... I understand almost everything at once, its memorizing the equations that's hardest, even though I am better at memorizing equations than most people. Also its best if the book offers succint explanations and shows how to solve the problems instead. I don't need a big long explanation, I am pretty good at filling I'm the blanks if I see how the problem is solved, amd if I attempt to read the words I just get more distracted. Same story with lectures.

Yeah I don't think I can stomach protein drinks. The texture, just getting it down... I drink very little milk, and I can't seem to stomach eggs unless they're in a form that doesn't have eggy flavor or texture. Yes 112 is every woman's dream weight but I think its more muscle than fat I'm losing, so I had better eat more fish and find some way of exercise that isn't so... Boring... I mean I walk a lot like at least an hour a day from bus stop to bus stop just traveling the city but that isn't real exercise...

I wouldn't have thought my stomach pH would be so high, given all the tart yogurt I eat, all the fruit in it (vitamin C does make Adderall pass faster) and the occasional vitamin C fortified energy drink... I don't really think it makes a difference for me what I eat... Maybe it is preserved somewhere in the brain somehow? Would dopamine transporter work on amphetamine, like reuptake it and let it out steadily for usage? Or maybe my dopamine transporters are overactive hence my depression AND strange response to Adderall...

 

[Nano-Passion]

Oh well I should be taking THAT class, not the crappy one at that school I went to that I aced without even studying or paying attention or doing homework. It was first year, go figure... All stuff they conveniently assume you've forgotten in high school unless you took a bought and paid for AP test. As for 'calculus-based', well that's a joke, like the fact that you put an integral mark next to the basic work formula is supposed to make it any harder to solve. Honestly I see no point in teaching physics until they teach you more math... I have so far found all of it very easy, like simple algebra in disguise, I can even figure out problems I've never done before in the time given to take the test... And all those dumb engineering majors were failing but for the overgenerous grading curve...

Yes, calculus based physics 1 is a lie, they use almost no calculus. The followup will use more calculus however, but still a small amount.

I've met plenty of smart engineers, your tone may offend other hard-working engineers who may even enjoy physics just as much as you.

Oh yes Schaums was hard to follow. I just barely made sense of their book on PDE's before I switched to another one and found it far clearer. I still have a hard time paying attention though... I understand almost everything at once, its memorizing the equations that's hardest, even though I am better at memorizing equations than most people. Also its best if the book offers succint explanations and shows how to solve the problems instead. I don't need a big long explanation, I am pretty good at filling I'm the blanks if I see how the problem is solved, amd if I attempt to read the words I just get more distracted. Same story with lectures.

How long do you study each day with attention? If I recall correctly, you told me that you studied for a 2 hour block each day (but this was in the summer). The thing is with me is that I can study easily for 6 hour blocks, if I am focused and motivated. However, I have a very steep cliff to climbs in terms of motivation. Even worse, I either focus relatively well or literally not at all. Actually, my focus and motivation has been nill the past two months. And that is something I've had to deal with my whole life, either too much motivation or too little, seldom in between.

And I don't know about you, but I can't stand lectures. I hate to sit down and hear people tell me what is exactly in the daym book. I want to think for myself, I don't need someone else to digest the book.

Yeah I don't think I can stomach protein drinks. The texture, just getting it down... I drink very little milk, and I can't seem to stomach eggs unless they're in a form that doesn't have eggy flavor or texture. Yes 112 is every woman's dream weight but I think its more muscle than fat I'm losing, so I had better eat more fish and find some way of exercise that isn't so... Boring... I mean I walk a lot like at least an hour a day from bus stop to bus stop just traveling the city but that isn't real exercise...

Well it depends on how you make it. I put 2 cups of milk and half a scoop of the weight gainer and blend it, the texture and taste is very close to that of chocolate milk.

It isn't about fish, what you need to eat is things that are very high in calories which won't curb your appetite too much. Which is why I recommended the weight-gainer. Try eating bread, macaroni, peanut butter, etc. Fish and other meats will be very high in protein but relatively low in calories. Moreover, they will curb your appetite much more.

Try to pick up a sport that you enjoy. There are lots of nice sports, my favorite one is table tennis thus far. You can also work-out, and if you decide to that then I have a lot of advice to give you in this subject (I took working out extremely serious in the past). Working out, like exercising, will help you focus as well as build confidence in yourself.

Or just do simple things for fun. If you hang out with a friend for example, take a long walk around the park. Grab a broom stick and start pretending your a samurai or something, your never too old to be a fool.

I wouldn't have thought my stomach pH would be so high, given all the tart yogurt I eat, all the fruit in it (vitamin C does make Adderall pass faster) and the occasional vitamin C fortified energy drink... I don't really think it makes a difference for me what I eat... Maybe it is preserved somewhere in the brain somehow? Would dopamine transporter work on amphetamine, like reuptake it and let it out steadily for usage? Or maybe my dopamine transporters are overactive hence my depression AND strange response to Adderall...

If I correctly, amphetamine affects dopamine transporters as well. But I can't conjecture anything beyond that. It would be really interesting if you can make a topic about this on the Medical Science forum here at PF.

 

[ZapperZ]

Closed, pending moderation.

Zz.

 

[micromass]

Closed, pending moderation.

Zz.

Mod note: this thread will remain locked.