I on these questions pleaseeee anyone, its on set thoery

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving mathematical statements related to set theory and number theory, specifically focusing on properties of odd integers, the Fibonacci sequence, and cardinality of sets. Participants seek assistance with proofs and methodologies, including mathematical induction and cardinality definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes proving that if n is odd, then n^2 - 1 is divisible by 8, suggesting the use of contrapositive reasoning.
  • Another participant introduces the Fibonacci sequence and asks how to prove that F3n is even for all n.
  • A third participant explains the principle of mathematical induction as a method to prove the first problem, detailing the steps involved in the proof.
  • Some participants suggest checking n^2 - 1 for odd residues modulo 8 as an alternative approach.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about proving a set has cardinality and seeks clarification on the concept.
  • A later reply discusses the notion of cardinality as a relation between sets, explaining that one can compare cardinalities without defining them explicitly.
  • Participants present specific sets to prove have cardinality aleph-nought, seeking assistance with the proofs.
  • There is a suggestion that some questions may be more appropriate for the homework section of the forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problems presented, with no consensus on the best methods for proving the statements. Some participants agree on the use of induction for the first problem, while others raise different methods and questions about cardinality without a clear resolution.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions in the proofs, varying definitions of cardinality, and the need for clarity in the questions posed by participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and individuals interested in mathematical proofs, particularly in set theory and number theory, as well as those seeking help with homework-related questions.

dhillon
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n = any integer. prove that if n is odd then n^2 - 1 is divisble by 8

i was thinking of finding a contrapositive, not sure what to do

thanks for your help guys
 
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also does anyone know the fibonacci sequence which is defined by F1=1, F2=2, Fn= Fn-1 + Fn-2 for all n>=3 . anyone know how to prove F3n is even for all n??

thanks again
 
The proof to both of these relies on INDUCTION.

The basic idea behind induction is the following:

1) Prove that a statement P(n) is true for n=1.
2) Prove that if P(n) is true, then P(n+1) is true, so long as n is at least 1.

If we can prove the above two statements, then we have proven P(n) is true for any n that is at least 1. This is because P(1) is true, so P(2) is true, so P(3) is true, so P(4) is true... and so on.

Now, here's how we prove your first problem:

"P(n)" means "n^2 - 1 is divisible by 8".

P(1) is obviously true, as n^2 - 1 = 0, which is divisible by 8.
Now, suppose for some odd n, P(n) is true. (i.e., n^2 - 1 is divisible by 8). We want to prove that this implies that P(n+2) is true.

"P(n+2)" means "(n+2)^2 - 1 is divisible by 8", which means "n^2 + 4n + 4 - 1 is divisible by 8" which means "(n^2 - 1) + (4n + 4) is divisible by 8".

But this is also clearly true! We know n^2 - 1 is divisible by 8 by assumption. We also know that 4n + 4 is divisible by 8 for any odd n. Thus the whole thing is divisible by 8.

By induction we are done.

Now, you try the second problem.
 
Knowing some elementary number theory, you could check n^2-1 for the odd residues modulo 8.
 
thank you soooo much ...i'm reading through the working out now
 
does anyone know how you go about proving a set has cardinality, I am not sure where to start, and I am attemting the 2nd one one thanks once again
 
dhillon said:
does anyone know how you go about proving a set has cardinality, I am not sure where to start, and I am attemting the 2nd one one thanks once again

Can you explain your question a bit better? The notion of cardinality is not restricted to sets with a "given" cardinality, it can be treated as a relation between sets. You can say that "the cardinality of A is larger than the cardinality of B" without defining "cardinality for A". In other words, |A|>|B| makes sense, but |A| does not. But you can also define the cardinality of a set as the smallest ordinal with the same cardinality. In this way each set "has" a cardinality. This definition is an extension of the previous, plus that now |A| makes sense.
 
the question is:

Prove that these sets have cardinality aleph-nought:(there is two 2 prove)

(a) {1/(2^k) : k∈ℕ}

(b) {x∈ℤ : x >= -5}

once again thank you, i hope the question makes sense more
 
also could you help me with this ..i'm trying it and have spent the whole day reading about it but its not that clear to me ..thank you

fibonacci sequence which is defined by F1=1, F2=2, Fn= Fn-1 + Fn-2 for all n>=3 . anyone know how to prove F3n is even for all n?
 
  • #10
dhillon said:
the question is:

Prove that these sets have cardinality aleph-nought:(there is two 2 prove)

(a) {1/(2^k) : k∈ℕ}

(b) {x∈ℤ : x >= -5}

once again thank you, i hope the question makes sense more

This should probably be in the homework section..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #11
Jarle said:
This should probably be in the homework section..
Yes, it should. And the forum rules regarding homework help should apply as well.
 
Last edited:

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