I think there is some thing wrong

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a calculus exercise concerning the convergence of the Newton sequence to a root of a differentiable function. Participants explore the conditions under which the theorem holds, particularly focusing on the implications of the derivative being bounded and the behavior of the function near its roots.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the exercise, suggesting that the condition "f' is bounded" should be replaced with "f' is non-zero throughout (a,b)" to ensure convergence of the Newton sequence.
  • Another participant points out that the initial point chosen in their example is actually the root of the function, which leads to immediate convergence, thus not addressing the original concern about points where the derivative vanishes but is not a root.
  • There is a suggestion to find an example where the derivative vanishes at a point that is not the root, to test the conditions of the theorem further.
  • A later reply emphasizes the difficulty of finding such an example and argues that the statement "for any x0 in (a,b) the Newton sequence converges to a root" is problematic if the derivative can vanish at points that are not roots.
  • One participant restates the problem with a condition that the derivative does not vanish at the initial point, claiming to have proved the revised statement easily.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the conditions under which the theorem holds, particularly about the implications of the derivative being bounded versus non-zero. The discussion remains unresolved as different viewpoints and examples are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the behavior of the function and its derivative, particularly regarding the conditions under which the Newton sequence converges. The discussion highlights the need for careful consideration of these conditions in various examples.

MIB
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I think there is some thing wrong in this exercise which I met by chance in a book of Calculus and analysis while looking for rigorous definition for angle , it says

let f : (a,b) → ℝ be a differentiable function , suppose that f' is bounded , and that f has a root r in (a,b) . suppose that for x ≠ r , Jx denote the open interval between x and r , where if f(x) > 0 then f is convex on Jx , and if f(x) < 0 then f is concave on Jx.Then prove that for any x0 in (a,b) the Newton sequence converges to a root where x0 is it initial point .

The problem here is that we can take the initial point x0 where f'(x0)=0 .for the simplicity consider f(x) := x^3 for all x in (-4,4)
 
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I think we must replace "f' is bounded on (a,b)" by "f' is non-zero throughout (a,b)"
 
Last edited:
MIB said:
I think there is some thing wrong in this exercise which I met by chance in a book of Calculus and analysis while looking for rigorous definition for angle , it says

let f : (a,b) → ℝ be a differentiable function , suppose that f' is bounded , and that f has a root r in (a,b) . suppose that for x ≠ r , Jx denote the open interval between x and r , where if f(x) > 0 then f is convex on Jx , and if f(x) < 0 then f is concave on Jx.Then prove that for any x0 in (a,b) the Newton sequence converges to a root where x0 is it initial point .

The problem here is that we can take the initial point x0 where f'(x0)=0 .for the simplicity consider f(x) := x^3 for all x in (-4,4)

There is no problem in this particular example because the initial point you chose is the root of your function, so you've already converged to the root and aren't going anywhere.

Try coming up with an example where the derivative vanishes at a point that is not the root of the function. Be sure to double-check that the concavity conditions of the theorem are still met in this case. If you can show that you can't pick a function with f'(x0) = 0 for which the concavity requirements are satisfied, then there is no problem with the theorem as stated.
 
Mute said:
There is no problem in this particular example because the initial point you chose is the root of your function, so you've already converged to the root and aren't going anywhere.

Try coming up with an example where the derivative vanishes at a point that is not the root of the function. Be sure to double-check that the concavity conditions of the theorem are still met in this case. If you can show that you can't pick a function with f'(x0) = 0 for which the concavity requirements are satisfied, then there is no problem with the theorem as stated.

I know it can be very hard to think an example where the derivative vanishes at a point which is not a root , and I think it is impossible the problem is that it says " for any x0 in (a,b) the Newton sequence converges to a root where x0 is it initial point " , and then this wrong ,because the root is in (a,b) .
 
OK I restated it as following

let f : (a,b) → ℝ be a differentiable function , suppose that f' is bounded , and that f has a root r in (a,b) . suppose that for x ≠ r , Jx denote the open interval between x and r , where if f(x) > 0 then f is convex on Jx , and if f(x) < 0 then f is concave on Jx.Then prove that for any x0 in (a,b) the Newton sequence converges to a root where x0 is it initial point where the derivative doesn't vanish at x0.

And I proved it easily then .
 

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