I want to read about the electron nucleus interaction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction between electrons and nuclei, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and quantum electrodynamics (QED). Participants explore the nature of this interaction, including the role of quanta and radiative corrections, while seeking resources for further understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recalls that Schrödinger's equation treats the electron-nucleus interaction as unquantised but questions if it is more accurately described as mediated by an exchange of quanta.
  • Another participant provides a link to an article discussing radiative corrections to the semiclassical model, which involves Coulomb potentials and the formation of particle pairs affecting ground state energy.
  • A participant expresses concern that the referenced article may be too advanced and suggests revisiting QED, noting a potential misunderstanding about its focus on EM radiation in free space versus electron-nucleus interactions.
  • One participant clarifies that the approximation mentioned is the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, referring to a Wikipedia article for further details on its derivation from a full quantum Hamiltonian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit differing views on the nature of the electron-nucleus interaction, with some suggesting a quantised model and others referencing classical approximations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of these interactions and the appropriate models to describe them.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding and the complexity of the models discussed, including the dependence on various approximations and the challenges of solving nonlinear equations of motion in quantum field theory.

gnnmartin
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My unreliable memory is that although Schrödinger's equation treats the interaction between an electron and the nucleus as unquantised, it is more generally thought to be mediated by an exchange of quanta between electron and nucleus. I want to check on this and get a better understanding. Can anyone please point me at something that covers this, preferably online? And if I am wrong about the exchange of quanta, please let me know!
 
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Here's one article about that subject, but I don't have the knowledge base to evaluate how good it is: http://www.actaphys.uj.edu.pl/fulltext?series=Reg&vol=48&page=2183

In short, the idea is to add radiative corrections to the semiclassical model where the nucleus and electron create Coulomb potentials proportional to ##1/r## around them. This leads to many kinds of things, such as formation of electron-positron or even muon-antimuon pairs, that affect the ground state energy of hydrogen by small amount.
 
hilbert2 said:
Here's one article about that subject, but I don't have the knowledge base to evaluate how good it is: http://www.actaphys.uj.edu.pl/fulltext?series=Reg&vol=48&page=2183

In short, the idea is to add radiative corrections to the semiclassical model where the nucleus and electron create Coulomb potentials proportional to ##1/r## around them. This leads to many kinds of things, such as formation of electron-positron or even muon-antimuon pairs, that affect the ground state energy of hydrogen by small amount.
Thanks. On a quick read I think that that is too advanced for my purpose: if I follow it correctly, it assume a quantised model and describes a refinement. It does make me think I should re-read QED: I read it ages ago and had remembered it as describing EM radiation in free space, but perhaps it covers nucleus/electron interaction.
 
gnnmartin said:
Thanks. On a quick read I think that that is too advanced for my purpose: if I follow it correctly, it assume a quantised model and describes a refinement. It does make me think I should re-read QED: I read it ages ago and had remembered it as describing EM radiation in free space, but perhaps it covers nucleus/electron interaction.

The problem of free waves is the simplest one, as the normal modes of the field behave like independent harmonic oscillators. When there's a Dirac field of fermions (electrons, muons, etc..) interacting with the EM field, it becomes a field system with nonlinear equations of motion and can't be solved exactly even if treated as a classical mechanics system. Therefore the perturbation theory with Feynman diagrams is used. Then you can deduce things like that the production of a muon-antimuon pair is much less likely than the production of an electron-positron pair, and that it is purely a result of the larger mass of a muon.
 
gnnmartin said:
My unreliable memory is that although Schrödinger's equation treats the interaction between an electron and the nucleus as unquantised
No. What you refer to is already an approximation, called the Born-Oppenheimer approximation. See the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Oppenheimer_approximation for a derivation of the latter from a full quantum Hamiltonian for the combined motion of electrons and nuclei.
 
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