I wrote this on an exam, is it correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of continuity and differentiability in the context of functions and their antiderivatives. Participants explore the relationship between these concepts, particularly in relation to exam responses and the nature of nonelementary antiderivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if a function f(x) is continuous, then its antiderivative F(x) always exists and is differentiable.
  • Multiple participants challenge this claim, emphasizing that continuity does not guarantee differentiability, citing the example of y = |x|, which is continuous but not differentiable at x=0.
  • Another participant clarifies that the original question pertains to primitives and integrals, suggesting that a continuous function on a closed interval has a differentiable primitive function.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of nonelementary antiderivatives and their relationship to arbitrary constants in elementary antiderivatives.
  • A participant distinguishes between definite and indefinite integrals, questioning the connection between the lower limit of integration and the arbitrary constant in antiderivatives.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of improper integrals and clarifies their terminology regarding elementary antiderivatives.
  • A specific example of an integral is provided, with a participant explaining that it has an antiderivative despite being nonelementary, and questioning if the lower limit of integration can be considered arbitrary like the constant in elementary antiderivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between continuity and differentiability, with no consensus reached on the initial claim. The discussion on nonelementary antiderivatives and their properties also reveals differing viewpoints, indicating ongoing uncertainty and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants use different terminologies, which may lead to misunderstandings. The discussion includes references to improper integrals and the nature of elementary versus nonelementary antiderivatives, highlighting the complexity of the concepts involved.

1MileCrash
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F(x) always exists and is differentiable as long as f(x) is continuous.

Do you agree?
 
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No, you have it wrong

Continuity and Differentiability
D => C but the converse C => D is not true

y = |x| is continuous at x=0 but not Differentiable there.A function is Continuous ...
Informally... if you can trace its graph without lifting your pencil
Formally ...if Limit f(x) as x-> a = f(a)

A function is Differentiable if
Informally... if it can be approximated linearly (by a tangent line) at the point in question
Formally... if the Limit of the definition exists
f ' (x) = Limit as dx -> 0 [ f(x+dx) - f(x) ] / dx

Existence and Differentiability are the same thing
 
paulfr said:
No, you have it wrong

Continuity and Differentiability
D => C but the converse C => D is not true

y = |x| is continuous at x=0 but not Differentiable there.


A function is Continuous ...
Informally... if you can trace its graph without lifting your pencil
Formally ...if Limit f(x) as x-> a = f(a)

A function is Differentiable if
Informally... if it can be approximated linearly (by a tangent line) at the point in question
Formally... if the Limit of the definition exists
f ' (x) = Limit as dx -> 0 [ f(x+dx) - f(x) ] / dx

Existence and Differentiability are the same thing

You misunderstood his question. He was talking about primitives and integrals.

1MileCrash: yes, a continuous function [itex]f:[a,b]\rightarrow \mathbb{R}[/itex] always has a differentiable primitve function.
 
If by F(x) you mean an anti-derivative of f(x), you are correct.
 
Alrighty, another question on the same subject but not from the exam.

Of course the nonelementary antiderivatives inspired that question. Is the lower limit in the integral sign of a nonelementary antiderivative kind of like the + C arbitrary constant for elementary antiderivatives?
 
1MileCrash said:
Alrighty, another question on the same subject but not from the exam.

Of course the nonelementary antiderivatives inspired that question. Is the lower limit in the integral sign of a nonelementary antiderivative kind of like the + C arbitrary constant for elementary antiderivatives?
If I understand what you're asking, there's no connection between the lower limit of integration and the arbitrary constant.

What do you mean by "nonelementary antiderivative?" I get the feeling you're really asking about definite (w. limits of integration) versus indefinite (wo limits of integration) integrals.
 
I can tell I wasn't clear, we're running on two different terminologies, what you're referring to, we call improper integrals. By elementary antiderivative, I mean an antiderivative that is just a normal polynomial/logarithmic/what have you function.

Now that I'm on an actual PC, I can show you.

The question was:

[itex]\int 8\sqrt{\frac{3}{4} sin^{2}\theta} d\theta[/itex]

This function has no elementary antiderivative, but it does have an antiderivative. Show one, and explain why it has an antiderivative.

An antiderivative is:

[itex]\int^{\theta}_{0} \sqrt{\frac{3}{4} sin^{2}t} dt[/itex]

Because that's a function of theta increasing at the rate of:
[itex]\ 8\sqrt{\frac{3}{4} sin^{2}\theta}[/itex]

An my answer "why" was the opening of this thread.

So, my question is, since

[itex]\int^{\theta}_{0} \sqrt{\frac{3}{4} sin^{2}t} dt[/itex]

Is increasing at the same rate and therefore has the same derivative whether I replace that 0 with 6, 22, 1000, is it like an arbirary constant for a normal antiderivative, since they are all antiderivatives of the original function no matter what the lower limit of the integral is?
 

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