Ideal thermal efficiency impossible?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the impossibility of achieving 100% thermal efficiency in heat engines, primarily due to the principles of entropy and the necessity of a cold reservoir. Participants emphasize that even in ideal conditions, such as a perfect heat engine, efficiency cannot reach 100% because of the inherent temperature difference between the hot and cold reservoirs. The Third Law of Thermodynamics further restricts this by stating that a cold reservoir cannot exist at absolute zero (0K). The Carnot Theorem is referenced as a foundational concept in understanding these limitations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamics principles
  • Familiarity with the Carnot Theorem
  • Knowledge of the Third Law of Thermodynamics
  • Basic concepts of heat engines and efficiency metrics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the Carnot Theorem and its implications on thermal efficiency
  • Study the Third Law of Thermodynamics and its relevance to heat engines
  • Explore practical examples of heat engine efficiency, such as internal combustion engines
  • Investigate methods to minimize energy losses in thermal systems
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, mechanical engineering, and thermodynamics, as well as anyone interested in the efficiency of heat engines and energy conversion processes.

gersetaffe
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I know a heat engine can never be 100% efficient. There has to be a cold reservoir that some of the heat is rejected to. Why is that?

I know it is because of entropy, but could someone please provide some further explanation. Thanks.
 
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Its just a matter of logistics. Any time there is friction, or noise, or heat going to something you don't want, or air-resistance, etc etc etc, then energy is being lost--and you also lose efficiency.

Consider a car engine, 1) tons of heat is being dissipated without doing any work (e.g. by the radiator, and the wind blowing by) 2) even once you convert the heat from combustion to torque, there is friction on the drive shaft, the axel, the tires--losing more heat; in the end you are getting about 20% efficiency.
 
Sorry, zhermes, but no this has nothing to do with friction or other incidental losses. Even with an absolutely perfect heat engine, you get nowhere near 100% efficiency.

The reason is that the heat engine harnesses the energy (temperature) difference between the hot reservoir and cold reservoir and as a result, heat must be allowed to flow between them.
 
russ_watters said:
Sorry, zhermes, but no this has nothing to do with friction or other incidental losses. Even with an absolutely perfect heat engine, you get nowhere near 100% efficiency.

The reason is that the heat engine harnesses the energy (temperature) difference between the hot reservoir and cold reservoir and as a result, heat must be allowed to flow between them.

russ_watters is right.Even with no friction or whatever,you could get 100% efficiency only if you had a cold reservoir at 0K,which is forbidden by the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

To know more,refer to Carnot Theorem.
 

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