Identifying conserved quantities using Noether's theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on identifying conserved quantities using Noether's theorem in the context of various potentials. Participants explore the implications of the potentials on energy and angular momentum conservation, examining specific cases with different dependencies on spatial coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that for the potential U(r) = U(x^2), energy is conserved due to the lack of time dependence and linear momentum is conserved in the y and z directions due to independence from those coordinates.
  • Another participant questions the conclusion about angular momentum conservation, prompting a discussion about which axis can be rotated without changing x.
  • A participant suggests that rotating around the x-axis keeps the x coordinate unchanged, implying conservation of angular momentum in the x direction.
  • For the second potential, it is proposed that the system is confined to the xy plane, leading to conservation of angular momentum in the z direction due to invariance under rotation around that axis.
  • In discussing the third potential, a participant posits that since U(r(vector)) = U(r^2(scalar)), it is independent of any rotational angle, suggesting angular momentum is conserved in all directions.
  • Another participant clarifies that angular momentum is conserved in all directions, noting that a general rotation involves three angles (Euler angles).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conservation of energy and linear momentum in specific directions based on the potentials discussed. However, there is some contention regarding the implications for angular momentum conservation, particularly in the context of different axes and the interpretation of rotational invariance.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of the potentials and their dependencies on coordinates may not be fully articulated. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of rotational invariance and its implications for angular momentum conservation.

Snydes
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I've been asked to find the conserved quantities of the following potentials: i) U(r) = U(x^2), ii) U(r) = U(x^2 + y^2) and iii) U(r) = U(x^2 + y^2 + z^2). For the first one, there is no time dependence or dependence on the y or z coordinate therefore energy is conserved and linear momentum in the y and z direction are conserved. I'm having trouble with the angular momentum. It would seem to me that since there is only a dependence on x, that the lagrangian would be invariant under rotations around the y and z-axis and thus angular momentum in those directions is conserved. Similar approach for the other two potentials. Can anyone give me any more depth or background on this, what would be a concrete way to approach these types of problems so I can be more confident in my answer
 
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Snydes said:
since there is only a dependence on x, that the lagrangian would be invariant under rotations around the y and z-axis and thus angular momentum in those directions is conserved.
You are halfway there, but draw the wrong conclusion. Which axis can you rotate around without changing x?
 
Orodruin said:
You are halfway there, but draw the wrong conclusion. Which axis can you rotate around without changing x?

If I rotate around the x axis, the x coordinate should remain unchanged then should it not, therefore the angular momentum in the x direction is conserved?

For the second case, would this mean that we are solely dealing with the xy plane, thus a rotation around the z axis leaves the system invariant and angular momentum in the z direction is conserved?
 
Correct.
 
Orodruin said:
Correct.

What about the third case? my first though would be that since U(r(vector))=U(r^2(scalar)) then it is independent of any rotational angle (theta, phi) then angular momentum is conserved for all space. Is this true?
 
Snydes said:
What about the third case? my first though would be that since U(r(vector))=U(r^2(scalar)) then it is independent of any rotational angle (theta, phi) then angular momentum is conserved for all space. Is this true?

Angular momentum is conserved in all directions (rather than "all space"). A general rotation has three angles (see Euler angles).
 
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