If we consider the universe as bounded but infinite

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the universe's bounds, particularly focusing on the relationship between mass, energy, and the observable universe. Participants explore ideas related to infinite matter, the possibility of a big crunch, and the nature of particles within the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to discuss the bounds of the universe and the implications for energy and infinite matter.
  • Another participant questions the broadness of the initial inquiry and suggests narrowing down the focus.
  • There is a claim that while the observable universe has a finite volume, it is unclear whether the entire universe is bounded in terms of mass.
  • Some participants agree that the observable universe has a finite volume, which can only contain a finite number of particles.
  • One participant introduces the idea of "Dark Particles" and suggests that there may be no distance between them, proposing a different conceptualization of particles.
  • Another participant challenges this notion, stating that particles cannot get arbitrarily close together and emphasizing that a finite volume can only contain a finite mass.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of matter and energy, with one participant suggesting a conceptualization of ether, while others clarify that matter and energy are quantized and discrete.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the universe is bounded or the nature of particles. Multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and implications of mass and energy in the universe.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about definitions, particularly regarding the concept of "point particles" and the nature of infinity in relation to particles. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions that are not fully resolved.

Atlas3
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Would someone like to have a conversation with me about the bounds of the universe and energy? I have a few ideas rambling around.. When I say bounds I mean the expanding bubble. But I would like to discuss infinite matter and infinite energy big crunch possibility. I'm a beginner with BIG thoughts.
 
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I'm afraid you won't find that here, have you had a chance to look at the forum rules ?
 
Atlas3 said:
Would someone like to have a conversation with me about the bounds of the universe and energy?

That's too broad as it stands for a PF thread. Can you pick one specific thing you have a question about?
 
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wabbit said:
I'm afraid you won't find that here, have you had a chance to look at the forum rules ?
 
I am trying to navigate and I'll find the guidelines. Thank you. If you are a moderator you can delete or close this thread. Thank you
 
Atlas3 said:
Why is mass in the universe bounded?
There's no proof that it is, we don't know. What is bounded is the mass in the observable universe, but I'm stuck for a proof here. I would say because we know (or at least we have good evidence that) the observable universe has a finite volume (there's a limit to how far we can see), and finite volumes can contain only a finite number of particles.
 
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wabbit said:
the observable universe has a finite volume (there's a limit to how far we can see), and finite volumes can contain only a finite number of particles.

Yes, exactly.
 
  • #10
wabbit said:
There's no proof that it is, we don't know. What is bounded is the mass in the observable universe, but I'm stuck for a proof here. I would say because we know (or at least we have good evidence that) the observable universe has a finite volume (there's a limit to how far we can see), and finite volumes can contain only a finite number of particles.
PeterDonis said:
Yes, exactly.
PeterDonis said:
Yes, exactly.
There does not seem to be a limit on how many particles there are? Exactly that there is no distance between them and an infinite number of them. I could call them Dark Particles.
 
  • #11
Atlas3 said:
there is no distance between them

This is not correct. What we are calling "particles" are not really point particles; they can't get arbitrarily close together. A better way of phrasing all this would be that a finite volume can only contain a finite mass.
 
  • #12
PeterDonis said:
This is not correct. What we are calling "particles" are not really point particles; they can't get arbitrarily close together. A better way of phrasing all this would be that a finite volume can only contain a finite mass.
mass and particle are not the same thing. I don't mean discovered particles in my thoughts, or charged particles that cannot become close. More of an substance of ether in what i was thinking. I don't know the definition of point. I really cannot describe what i think the size of infinity is. To me it does not exist a countable finite size when considering infinity and particles. They don't have to be a part of something.
 
  • #13
Atlas3 said:
More of an substance of ether in what i was thinking.

The matter and energy in our universe is not a continuous "substance". It comes in discrete, quantized pieces, which are what we were calling "particles" in previous posts. And a finite volume can only contain a finite number of such discrete, quantized pieces. That is the physical fact, and it is why a finite volume can only contain a finite mass.
 
  • #14
Thread closed since the OP's question has been answered.
 

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