If you had ANY faith left in the goodwill of governments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a news story involving British marines in Iraq who allegedly shot at civilians while dressed in Middle Eastern attire during a covert operation. Participants explore the implications of this incident, questioning government actions and media coverage, and expressing skepticism about governmental transparency and motives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express disbelief over the actions of British marines, questioning why they were dressed as Arabs and why shooting at civilians was classified as a "special security task."
  • Others highlight the unusual nature of the incident, comparing it to a movie plot and suggesting it reflects broader issues of government misconduct.
  • Several participants note the lack of extensive media coverage, wondering why such incidents are not prominently reported.
  • Some contributions mention a general distrust in governments, particularly the U.S. and Britain, while others maintain some faith in other governments worldwide.
  • There are references to other controversial actions by governments, suggesting a pattern of unreported or underreported misconduct.
  • Disagreements arise regarding the portrayal of certain groups, such as the Minutemen, with differing views on their actions and media representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the implications of the incident or the motivations behind government actions. There is significant disagreement on the characterization of various groups and the adequacy of media coverage.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference multiple incidents and broader themes of governmental behavior and media reporting, indicating a complex landscape of opinions and assumptions that are not fully resolved within the discussion.

  • #31
Oh wait, I forgot that TRCSF is the same guy that accused me, who practically grew up on Santa Monica Blvd., whose three best male friends are all gay, who has marched for gay rights in West Hollywood, San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco, and New York, who has frickin' witnessed a gay threesome without batting an eyelid, of being homophobic. Gotta remember who I'm dealing with here.

Some people would rather just demonize those who disagree with them than engage in legitimate discussion.
 
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  • #32
loseyourname said:
They live next to the Mexican border! Who do you want them to monitor? All of the white people coming in illegally?!

God people, where does this hyperbole get us? The Klan frickin' lynches people and cuts off their scrotums. The Minutemen report illegal activity to the authorities. Have you ever considered that illegal immigration might be a more pressing problem than jaywalking in Southern Arizona? Ask SOS. Do you consider her to be racist, too?
I was about to post that I'm with you on this LYN (And I'd like to think I'm not racist). There are many Hispanics who do not like the flood of illegals either, because it is depressing their wages, increasing crime in their neighborhoods, drawing negative attention to them, etc. If they joined the Minutemen they'd probably be risking their lives via drive-by shooting or what have you. There probably are some white supremests in the group though, and that is a shame. Still, it has to do with outrage over the lack of security at our borders and the federal government support of business over American jobs, health, safety, etc. This has always been there, regardless of administrations (Democrat included). But the level it has reached is really the epitome of where our country is now.

No, I don't have faith in the goodwill of my government at this time. I suspect there are many things going on to make the Iraqi insurgency/civil war look like it is terrorism--like the question of whether Zarkawi is even alive (per the Civil War in Iraq thread). As one prof said during my college days, "the Middle East is a can of worms" and Bush opened the damn can thinking there were goodies inside.
 
  • #33
loseyourname said:
Oh wait, I forgot that TRCSF is the same guy that accused me, who practically grew up on Santa Monica Blvd., whose three best male friends are all gay, who has marched for gay rights in West Hollywood, San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco, and New York, who has frickin' witnessed a gay threesome without batting an eyelid, of being homophobic. Gotta remember who I'm dealing with here.

Some people would rather just demonize those who disagree with them than engage in legitimate discussion.

I don't remember that. What did you say that was homophobic?

Was it about gay marriage?

Was it one of those things that sounds like, "I'm not a racist. I have lots of black friends. I just think they should stay in their place."
 
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  • #34
I say let all the Mexicans in :-)

Their food is excellent... Plus who would work for the disease of a company that's called walmat if you had no illegal immigrants? I mean there profits would plummet if they couldn't manipulate the underprivileged...

/sarcasm
 
  • #35
Smurf said:
God, people talk so much **** about crap they don't understand these days.
I didn't actually say that socialism was crap but maybe you're right :biggrin: And I try to avoid the **** people write about it by avoiding threads devoted to your pet subject but you do have a bad habit of converting every thread to a discussion about anarchists / socialists :zzz:
 
  • #36
I try to avoid socialism like the plague, there's too much misinformation around it. More than anarchism. It's people who end up associating me with socialism that turn it into that thread. (because of their stupid dualist philosophy they think it's the opposite of capitalism and so think if I don't like capitalism I must be a socialist too - never mind that I just said I wasn't)
 
  • #37
loseyourname said:
Oh wait, I forgot that TRCSF is the same guy that accused me, who practically grew up on Santa Monica Blvd., whose three best male friends are all gay, who has marched for gay rights in West Hollywood, San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco, and New York, who has frickin' witnessed a gay threesome without batting an eyelid, of being homophobic. Gotta remember who I'm dealing with here.

Some people would rather just demonize those who disagree with them than engage in legitimate discussion.
You mean as you have just done?? :biggrin:
 
  • #38
Smurf said:
I try to avoid socialism like the plague, there's too much misinformation around it. More than anarchism. It's people who end up associating me with socialism that turn it into that thread. (because of their stupid dualist philosophy they think it's the opposite of capitalism and so think if I don't like capitalism I must be a socialist too - never mind that I just said I wasn't)
Smurf I'd say that as you are 18 you are going through the usual 'I want to be an individual' phase of your life. You looked around, found anarchism and then better yet green anarchism to really set you apart from your peers and so provided yourself with your personal stamp of individuality.
The icing on the cake being most folk haven't even a clue what green anarchism is (possibly for very good reasons :biggrin: )

I'm willing to bet within a few years at most you will have moved on and will then follow a mainstream ideolgy. :smile:
 
  • #39
Art said:
Smurf I'd say that as you are 18 you are going through the usual 'I want to be an individual' phase of your life. You looked around, found anarchism and then better yet green anarchism to really set you apart from your peers and so provided yourself with your personal stamp of individuality.
The icing on the cake being most folk haven't even a clue what green anarchism is (possibly for very good reasons :biggrin: )

I'm willing to bet within a few years at most you will have moved on and will then follow a mainstream ideolgy. :smile:
you narrow-minded *******. Anarchism IS a mainstream ideology. But you'd never know it because you only hang around fascist capitalists. And the "green" thing is my mother's influence, she's such a tree-hugger.

(btw I went through the 'individualist' stage when I was 16 - Right now it's "I want to save the world" but quickly becoming "These people don't deserve to be saved - kill them all!". By 25 I should have reached complete and total apathy.)

P.S. I hate "individualists" - it's just another stupid "I wanna" trend in my view.
 
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  • #40
Smurf said:
(btw I went through the 'individualist' stage when I was 16 - Right now it's "I want to save the world" but quickly becoming "These people don't deserve to be saved - kill them all!".
See it's happening; you're practically a neocon already :smile:
 
  • #41
Smurf said:
(btw I went through the 'individualist' stage when I was 16 - Right now it's "I want to save the world" but quickly becoming "These people don't deserve to be saved - kill them all!". By 25 I should have reached complete and total apathy.)

I think the stage at 25 is called the "Wait a second, I'm as bad as everyone i criticize, i'll shut up now" stage
 
  • #42
Pengwuino said:
I think the stage at 25 is called the "Wait a second, I'm as bad as everyone i criticize, i'll shut up now" stage
Or I'm now earning as much as the people I used to denigrate so I'll just quietly slip away and come back under a new user name lol.
 
  • #43
Art said:
See it's happening; you're practically a neocon already :smile:
ooh a funny man.
 
  • #44
Smurf said:
.. Why does Bush endorse those racist "Minutemen" groups on the mexican border? ...
BECAUSE THEY'RE CORPORATE GOONS!

I'm sorry but that is officially the dumbest thing you've ever said.

Corporations are inherently anti-competitive, and anti-free market, because a true free market does not favor corporations. In a true free market labour is a commodity, just like everything else. Corporations like illegal immigration because it depresses wages. There is nothing racist about the minutemen groups on the border (though I'm sure some individuals there may well be racist). Its about enforcing the laws the government refuses to enforce that would benefit american citizens. The purpose of government is to protect its own citizens. By refusing to do anything about illegal immigration, other than off amnesty, bush is helping the corporations, yes. If he were to crack down on illegal immigration, and actually enforce the laws of this country (like he's supposed to) he would be pissing off the corporations. It makes no sense to say he endorses the Minutemen (if he does, its lipservice only, and news to me) because he is a corporate goon (which he is).
 
  • #45
franznietzsche said:
I'm sorry but that is officially the dumbest thing you've ever said.
That comment is excusable. You've been away :smile:

It makes no sense to say he endorses the Minutemen (if he does, its lipservice only, and news to me) because he is a corporate goon (which he is).
Yeah oh well. I never claimed to be an expert it on them - was part of a rant, geeze people lighten up.
 
  • #46
Smurf smells bad!

beat that rant buddy.
 
  • #47
I slept with your wife.
 
  • #48
Smurf said:
I slept with your wife.

I don't have a wife. That means you're a virgin. Pathetic.
 
  • #49
Pengwuino said:
I don't have a wife. That means you're a virgin. Pathetic.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1284769.html
 
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  • #50
This... means... war... *calls George W. Bush*
 
  • #51
Don't be such a sour loser :-p
 
  • #52
Smurf said:
Don't be such a sour loser :-p

Say goodbye to Canada buddy!
 
  • #53
Smurf said:
I don't. I read the link. I'm not a paranoid partisan freak like kat who won't click on any links because she's afraid of "raising their hit number" unless it conforms to her list of 3 or 4 networks that won't challenge her narrow perception of reality in any conceivable manner. I read the news story.
Proving once again that vacuous and youth are not oxymoronic. :wink:

On topic...
Anyone who had read this might have suspected future clashes between police and armed forces in Basra

Basra blogger is abducted and murdered
There is speculation that Mr Vincent, who received death threats, was murdered in an attempt to silence him. Four days before his death he had written an opinion piece in The New York Times in which he said that the police force in the British-controlled city had been infiltrated by Shia Muslim extremist militias, who were responsible for carrying out hundreds of murders of prominent Sunni Muslims
 
  • #54
So THIS is the "kat" they speak of...
 
  • #55
You See! You see! That redish avatar! That hyperbolic attitude!

PURE EVIL I TELL YOU! PURE EVIL!
 
  • #56
I... I can't! *extremities become numb*... its taking over! help me!
 
  • #57
It'd probably really make you freak if you knew my real name which "Kat" is a just a nickname for...
 
  • #58
Satan?
 
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  • #59
Pengwuino said:
Satin?
And lace too... :smile:
 
  • #60
TheStatutoryApe said:
And lace too... :smile:

What are you talking about.
 

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