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Importance of Good Engineering Practices

  1. Jul 17, 2006 #1

    Astronuc

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    I don't know how many heard about this - but this is an example of the importance of good engineering practice - or rather what happens when good engineering oversight is lacking and poor or questionable construction (manufacturing) practices are allowed.

    This angers me so much! :mad:

    Commuters delayed by Big Dig ramp closure

    The economic impact is bad enough, but the worst part is the death of person.
    Concrete falls, and a couple's joy is destroyed This was so unnecessary! It shouldn't have happened - like so many other incidents.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 17, 2006 #2
    I agree. It will be interesting to watch the fall out. I wouldn't want to be the Registered Engineer whose stamp and signiture is on the design. It is his/her fault if the materials and workmanship are to specifications. But, you don't know if it is the engineer's fault. This is a huge mess and the whole bunch of them, engineer, inspectors and testers should be investigated.

    Public safety should come first, DAMN the costs, politics and delays.
     
  4. Jul 17, 2006 #3

    Astronuc

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    Bechtel/Parsons-Brinckerhoff were the biggest contractor on the project!

    Back in March of this year, Reilly keeps pressure on for Big Dig settlement.

    That was before the collapse of the panel that killed a woman.

    It should have been design properly and constructed properly. There is no excuse for sloppiness - especially when the safety of the public is at stake.
     
  5. Jul 17, 2006 #4

    russ_watters

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    The way the lawyers see it, the materials used were not up to spec, so to me, this isn't an engineering issue, but a construction oversight issue.
     
  6. Jul 18, 2006 #5

    FredGarvin

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    Maybe it's my synical side, but I highly doubt that public safety and a job done right are the top priorities for the construction unions, especially those involved with the big dig.
     
  7. Jul 18, 2006 #6

    russ_watters

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    No, it is not your cynical side, it is the side that has worked with unions before...
     
  8. Jul 18, 2006 #7
    It all comes down to money and that will never change.

    There will always be people willing to gamble with peoples lives on both sides to beat out someone else's bid or come in under budget. You can see it everyday on the freeways, some jackass darting in and out of traffic trying to get home 2 mins sooner then he could if he just cruised along with the rest of us. He's gambling that his reckless actions won't cost him his own life or the life of someone else. It's really sick, but I doubt it will change soon. I used to get really offended at the amount of money people try and sue for in cases like this, but now I see that money is the only language these people understand, so hit them where it hurts.

    I always loved that line from Armageddon,

    Apply a similar quote to that highway system and your talking about a scary situation.
     
  9. Jul 19, 2006 #8

    Danger

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    This whole scenario is absolutely sickening. I'd love to pull up the Canuk pride and say that it wouldn't happen here, but we have Mafia contractors here as well. :frown:
     
  10. Jul 19, 2006 #9

    Pyrrhus

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    I don't dare to comment on the design or the quality of the materials until i see a study, but i do agree that the contracting for projects is corrupted almost everywhere in the world.

    Btw, anyone has found technical information on the tunnels?

    More info here
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2006
  11. Jul 19, 2006 #10

    Astronuc

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    http://www.boston.com/news/traffic/...nd_design_of_tunnel_are_called_into_question/

    There certainly is a design component to this - the mass of the concrete panels and the underdesigned '40-foot steel bar' that "couldn't handle the extra weight."

    According to the Wikipedia article -
    That should have sent warning bells off. One has to ask why 'too-short bolts' were used? Who approved their use? Were they too short by design, or did someone use bolts, which were in violation of the drawings (the latter being criminal negligence or mischief)?
     
  12. Jul 19, 2006 #11

    Pyrrhus

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    I can't believe they used poor quality concrete. Obviously when you're designing a concrete structure there's the question whether it'll be an "in situ" or premade structural members. If it's "in situ" the resistance between both the lab testtube concrete and the project's concrete mixed and then poured into its model to make the structural member will differ. Usually the later, has less resistance due to losses of water on hot temperatures. Mainly, there are methods to avoid much loss of resistance, but in some cases you might make concrete above the resistance for the design if you cannot control the losses of water.


    According to Wikipedia the concrete's poor quality isn't connected to the leaks discovered in the tunnels. This may be the case, but it is well known that the temperature plays a role in the porosity of the concrete.
     
  13. Jul 19, 2006 #12

    FredGarvin

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    That article reeks of the same mistake made in the Hyatt in Kansas City in the early '80s.
     
  14. Jul 19, 2006 #13

    Astronuc

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    This - Three bolts had no glue, Reilly says
    By Sean P. Murphy, Globe Staff | July 16, 2006
    reeks of gross (criminal) negligence, by the construction workers and the construction managment/oversight.

    This is so thoroughly disgusting. :mad:
     
  15. Jul 12, 2007 #14

    Astronuc

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    Big Dig - Bad engineering, construction or oversight

    And possibly all three!


    Feds Cite Epoxy in Big Dig's Fatal Ceiling Collapse
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11854258

    What I heard was that the roof panels were increased in size, the number of bolts was reduced, and the expoxy used was inappropriate for that application. Nobody - not even one engineer - raised a concern or questioned the design.

    This is negligence - and given that someone was killed - it's criminal negligence!
     
  16. Jul 12, 2007 #15

    Danger

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    I guess it just shows that merely becoming an Engineer doesn't necessarily make you conscientious (or brilliant).
     
  17. Jul 13, 2007 #16

    FredGarvin

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    Indeed it is. There will be some fallout to this. I guess it's unfortunate, but I would imagine the driving force behind the screw ups (the management) will go untouched while the lower level managers and workers will get hit with the consequences. I pitty any of the PEs on that job.
     
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