Improper Integral Question (convergence & evaluation)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence and evaluation of improper integrals, specifically focusing on techniques to determine convergence without direct evaluation. Participants also explore the evaluation of specific integrals and share methods for finding antiderivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks if there is a quick method to determine the convergence of an improper integral without evaluating it, using the example of $\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{x^3}{(x^2 + 1)^2}\,dx$ which they claim does not converge.
  • Another participant suggests evaluating the integral $\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{4}{\sqrt{x}(x+6)}\,dx$ and proposes finding the antiderivative as a good approach.
  • There is a discussion about a substitution method involving $u = \sqrt{x}$ to simplify the integral, which some participants find effective.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the limits of the evaluated integral and questions the correctness of a previous statement regarding the limit process.
  • Another participant reflects on their experience with integrals and explains their reasoning for using certain techniques based on the structure of the integrand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the methods for determining convergence or the evaluation of the integrals. There are differing opinions on the correctness of certain steps in the evaluation process, and some participants express uncertainty about the limits involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific integrals and techniques but do not fully resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved in their evaluations. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the best methods for determining convergence.

Amad27
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Hello, Two questions will be posed here.

(1) Question about Convergence; quick way.

Hello, I am trying to learn this concept on my own. My major question here is that,

Is there a quick way, to tell if an integral converges or diverges?

Suppose $\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{x^3}{(x^2 + 1)^2}\,dx$

This integral does not converge.

It took a while, a long while to actually evaluate this with the natural log, partial fraction decomposition etc...

The question is, Is there a way to tell the convergence or divergence of an improper integral, WITHOUT evaluating it?

Or a general easier method.

If you know of any, please let me know. Absolutely ANY TECHNIQUE?

Secondly, an actual integral for evaluation.

$\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{4}{\sqrt{x}(x+6)}\,dx$

$(4) \cdot \int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{x^{3/2} + 6x^{1/2}}\,dx$

First, I think it's a good idea to find the antiderivative. So the focus is, $\int \frac{1}{x^{1/2}(x + 6)}$

Some suggestions?
 
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Olok said:
Hello, Two questions will be posed here.

(1) Question about Convergence; quick way.

Hello, I am trying to learn this concept on my own. My major question here is that,

Is there a quick way, to tell if an integral converges or diverges?

Suppose $\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{x^3}{(x^2 + 1)^2}\,dx$

This integral does not converge.

It took a while, a long while to actually evaluate this with the natural log, partial fraction decomposition etc...

The question is, Is there a way to tell the convergence or divergence of an improper integral, WITHOUT evaluating it?

Or a general easier method.

If you know of any, please let me know. Absolutely ANY TECHNIQUE?

Secondly, an actual integral for evaluation.

$\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{4}{\sqrt{x}(x+6)}\,dx$

$(4) \cdot \int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{x^{3/2} + 6x^{1/2}}\,dx$

First, I think it's a good idea to find the antiderivative. So the focus is, $\int \frac{1}{x^{1/2}(x + 6)}$

Some suggestions?

$\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int{ \frac{4}{\sqrt{x} \left( x + 6 \right) }\,\mathrm{d}x } &= 8 \int{ \frac{1}{\left( \sqrt{x} \right) ^2 + 6} \, \frac{1}{2\,\sqrt{x}}\,\mathrm{d}x } \\ &= 8 \int{ \frac{1}{u^2 + 6} \, \mathrm{d}u} \textrm{ after making the substitution } u = \sqrt{x} \implies \mathrm{d}u = \frac{1}{2\,\sqrt{x}}\,\mathrm{d}x \end{align*}$

You should be able to keep going...
 
Prove It said:
$\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int{ \frac{4}{\sqrt{x} \left( x + 6 \right) }\,\mathrm{d}x } &= 8 \int{ \frac{1}{\left( \sqrt{x} \right) ^2 + 6} \, \frac{1}{2\,\sqrt{x}}\,\mathrm{d}x } \\ &= 8 \int{ \frac{1}{u^2 + 6} \, \mathrm{d}u} \textrm{ after making the substitution } u = \sqrt{x} \implies \mathrm{d}u = \frac{1}{2\,\sqrt{x}}\,\mathrm{d}x \end{align*}$

You should be able to keep going...
Excellent trick,

How did you even think of that?

$= (8) (\frac{1}{\sqrt{6}})arctan(\frac{\sqrt{x}}{6}$

Keeping in mind that it is improper.

$\lim (8)[\frac{1}{\sqrt{6}arctan(\frac{\sqrt{t}}{6}} - \frac{1}{0}$
${{t}\to{\infty}} $

Uh oh, just noticed a major problem -_-
 
Olok said:
Excellent trick,

How did you even think of that?

$= (8) (\frac{1}{\sqrt{6}})arctan(\frac{\sqrt{x}}{6}$

Keeping in mind that it is improper.

$\lim (8)[\frac{1}{\sqrt{6}arctan(\frac{\sqrt{t}}{6}} - \frac{1}{0}$
$ $

How did it become [math]\frac{1}{\sqrt{6} \arctan (\frac{\sqrt{t}}{6})} - \frac{1}{0}[/math]?

It should be [math] \lim_{x \to \infty} \frac{1}{\sqrt 6 } \arctan \sqrt \frac{x}{6}[/math], because arctan(0)=0.
Can you proceed?
 
Olok said:
Excellent trick,

How did you even think of that?

It's just from experience, I've developed a taste for when certain things will work.

In this case, because there was $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \sqrt{x} \end{align*}$ in the denominator, and because I know that $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x} \left( \sqrt{x} \right) = \frac{1}{2\,\sqrt{x}} \end{align*}$, I realized that this $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{1}{\sqrt{x}} \end{align*}$ factor could be used (after being scaled correctly) to change to a $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \mathrm{d}u \end{align*}$ if a substitution of $\displaystyle \begin{align*} u = \sqrt{x} \end{align*}$ was made everywhere else...
 

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