In which situations does the equation for torque t=Iα hold?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Leo Liu
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Torque
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the conditions under which the equation for torque, specifically ##\|\vec\tau\|=I\ddot\theta##, is applicable. Participants explore the theoretical foundations, mathematical representations, and specific scenarios related to torque in rotational dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the equation can be derived from the relationship between torque and angular momentum, suggesting a foundational understanding of rotational dynamics.
  • Another participant questions the correctness of the original equation's notation, emphasizing the importance of specifying the direction of angular acceleration and suggesting a more precise formulation.
  • A participant elaborates on the moment of inertia tensor and its definition, providing a detailed mathematical framework for understanding torque in relation to angular acceleration.
  • One contributor asserts that the equation holds true when the moment of inertia is constant over time, linking it to the broader principle that torque is the time derivative of angular momentum.
  • Another participant clarifies that if the moment of inertia is treated as a scalar, the equation applies specifically to the rotation of a rigid body around a fixed axis, while noting that a tensor of inertia is necessary for more complex scenarios.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the notation and conditions for the torque equation's applicability. There is no consensus on a singular interpretation or application of the equation, as multiple perspectives on the moment of inertia and its implications are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the constancy of the moment of inertia and the conditions under which the torque equation is valid. The conversation also touches on the mathematical representation of the moment of inertia tensor and its relevance to the discussion.

Leo Liu
Messages
353
Reaction score
156
The equation ##\|\vec\tau\|=I\ddot\theta## offers a way to calculate the torque acting upon a body which rotates about a fixed axle by using inertia and angular acceleration. This equation can be derived from ##\|\vec L\|=I\dot\theta##.

What I would like to know are the requirements for applying this equation. Thank you.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I don't think your equation as written is correct, since ##\ddot{\theta}## can certainly be negative. Better to write something like ##\tau_z = I \ddot{\theta}_z## or simply ##\tau = I \ddot{\theta}##.

Anyway, suppose a body is undergoing rotation about some fixed point ##\mathcal{O}## (this causes no loss in generality, since any infinitesimal motion can be described as the composition of a translation and a rotation, and by extension any motion can be described by the position of some reference point and the rotation around that reference point).

The moment of inertia tensor at the point ##\mathcal{O}##, which we might call ##I_{\mathcal{O}}##, is defined by an integral ##(I_{\mathcal{O}})_{ij} = \int dV \rho(x_k x_k \delta _{ij} - x_i x_j)##, N.B. summation over repeated indices, over the volume ##\Omega## which comprises the body. The ##\{ x_i \}## coordinates are relative to the origin ##\mathcal{O}##. Then$$L_i = (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{ij} \omega_j$$Now if the moment of inertia is constant during the motion,$$\tau_i = (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{ij} \dot{\omega}_j \equiv (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{ij} \alpha_j$$Furthermore, if the angular acceleration is constrained to only one direction, e.g. perhaps ##\boldsymbol{\alpha} = \alpha \boldsymbol{z} = \ddot{\theta}_z \boldsymbol{z}##, then all the terms in the sum on the RHS drop out except for one, in which case$$\tau_i = (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{iz} \alpha_z$$If you chose your coordinate system to coincide with the principal axes, then ##a\neq b \implies I_{ab} = 0## (i.e. the moment of inertia tensor has diagonal matrix representation), and simply you have$$\tau_z = (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{zz} \alpha_z, \quad \quad \tau_x = \tau_y = 0$$In cases like this it is conventional to rewrite something like ##(I_{\mathcal{O}})_{zz} \equiv (I_{\mathcal{O}})_{z}##.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, Leo Liu and dextercioby
To answer the question posed in the title of the thread, it holds in situations where the moment of inertia does not have a time dependence. More generally, $$\vec \tau=\frac{d\vec L}{dt}.$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nasu, Leo Liu and etotheipi
If ##I## in the OP is meant to be just a scalar this holds for the rotation of a rigid body around a fixed axis. ##I## is then the moment of inertia of the body around this fixed axis.

In general for a rigid body you have a tensor of inertia, explained nicely in ##3, describing the rotation of the body around a point fixed in the body.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 138 ·
5
Replies
138
Views
9K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K