Info on tests done in the past for expanding universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on historical tests related to the expanding universe, specifically examining the behavior of light from distant galaxies, including potential decreases in photon counts and increases in wavelengths. Participants explore the implications of these observations for understanding cosmic expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about historical tests measuring light from galaxies billions of light years away, suggesting that an expanding universe would show decreasing photon counts or increasing wavelengths.
  • Another participant references Hubble's observations of a correlation between redshift and distance, implying it supports the expanding universe concept.
  • A different participant argues that the type of evidence requested is currently unattainable due to the required precision for measuring light intensity changes over vast distances and timescales.
  • This participant also mentions that the evidence for the Big Bang is derived from other methods and points to "Tolman tests" as the closest relevant approach, although it compares different objects rather than the same object over time.
  • Another participant raises a concern about using local galaxy indicators as references for distant light, questioning the assumptions made about gravitational effects and the notion of a center or edge of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and existence of the evidence sought. While some reference historical observations, others challenge the assumptions and methodologies involved, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the precision of measurements required to observe changes in light intensity and redshift, as well as the implications of gravitational effects on observations from local galaxies.

scott22
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I am hoping that someone with broad knowledge of the physics literature can tell me when in the past tests were done on light coming from galaxies billions of light years away, tests that over time counted a decreasing number of photons from a single galaxy, or an increase in the wavelength of light from a single galaxy. It seems that an expanding universe would exhibit one or both of these characteristics, and I just assume these tests must have been done long ago. I am having no luck finding anything with the databases available to me and I was hoping someone could let me know where to look. Thanks.
 
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The origin of the notion is due to Hubble. He observed that there appeared to be a correlation between red shift of light from galaxies and how far away they were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hubble
 
The kind of evidence you're asking for doesn't exist, as it would require (currently)impossible accuracy to measure.

Consider a galaxy shining with light intensity I0 that was 7 billion ly away 100 years ago, and is receeding at 0.5c. Over 100 years of observation the intensity of light emitted by the galaxy would fall according to the inverse square law by:
[itex]\frac{I_{100}}{I_0}=\frac{R^2}{(R+ΔR)^2}[/itex]

ΔR is 50 ly, so
[itex]\frac{I_{100}}{I_0}=0,999999986[/itex]
or 0,0000014% lower intensity. Good luck measuring that, especially for an object already very faint.


Measuring the changing redshift of a single object is a similar problem. The time scale for observation is just not enough.

The evidence for the Big Bang is collected using other methods. Here's a review:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

The closest to what you want is described in the "Tolman tests" section, but it compares standard candles, not the same object at different times.
 
Using the unshifted indicators in our local galaxy as a reference for the shifted spectrum of light from objects at the most extreme distances does not seem to take into consideration the affect that the gravity of our galaxy has on light. We can only observe what is in our local area and make assumptions based on that observation. Then we assume we are at the center of the universe and somewhere out there is an edge.
 

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