Injecting Potassium Cyanide: LD50 & Effects

  • Thread starter Thread starter SkepticJ
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effectiveness of injecting potassium cyanide (KCN) and its lethal dose (LD50) compared to oral consumption. Participants explore the implications for a fictional character who uses poisoned weapons, focusing on the speed of toxicity and physiological effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether cyanide salts can be effectively introduced into the body by injection and how the LD50 compares with oral consumption.
  • Another participant provides estimated LD50 values for hydrogen cyanide via intravenous administration and skin exposure, as well as oral LD50s for sodium and potassium cyanide.
  • A participant clarifies that the provided LD50 values pertain to hydrogen cyanide gas and expresses uncertainty about the injection of cyanide salts.
  • Some participants suggest that other alkaloids may be more poisonous than hydrogen cyanide and have historically been used for poisoning weapons.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the speed of action for the character's story, noting that they require a poison that acts quickly and causes serious physiological effects almost immediately.
  • References to studies indicating that injected potassium cyanide can be deadly are mentioned, along with a specific study on its neurological effects.
  • Another participant mentions other fast-acting toxins like nicotine and saxitoxin, which have low LD50s.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the effectiveness of injecting cyanide salts and whether KCN is essential for the character's narrative. Multiple competing views exist about the speed of action and toxicity of various substances.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the lack of clarity regarding the injection of cyanide salts and the specific conditions under which the LD50 values apply. There is also a mention of the need for further exploration of alternative poisons.

SkepticJ
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
This is going to sound like a weird knowledge request, but are cyanide salts effectively introduced into a body by injection? If so, how does the LD50 compare with oral consumption?

I'm curious because I'm creating a character that throws poisoned knives and suchlike, and need to know how fast they'd be effective.
 
Biology news on Phys.org
LD50s for hydrogen cyanide have been estimated to be 1.1 mg/kg for intravenous administration and 100 mg/kg after skin exposure. The oral LD50s for sodium and potassium cyanide are about 100 and 200 mg/kg respectively.

Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/army/mmcch/Cyanide.htm

It was the first google result for "cyanide LD50." Not to be a dick, but that took no effort to find.
 
Thank you, but that's intravenous for hydrogen cyanide--the gas. It, like all the other sources I found, doesn't mention if the salts work if injected.
 
Last edited:
Is KCN essential to your story ? There are alkaloids which are several hundred times more poisonous that HCN. And they where many times used to poison edged weapons and arrows.
 
SkepticJ said:
Thank you, but that's intravenous for hydrogen cyanide--the gas. It, like all the other sources I found, doesn't mention if the salts work if injected.

Ah, I didn't notice that.

http://www.epa.gov/IRIS/toxreviews/0060tr.pdf

Here you go-

In a related study from the same laboratory, i.p. injection of rats with 7 mg/kg KCN 92.8 mg/kg CN-) caused significant transient hearing loss... suggest that hearing loss from cyanide exposure is a potentially sensitive neurological marker of toxicity

They also mentioned NaCN, so yes, injected salts can be deadly.
 
DanP said:
Is KCN essential to your story ? There are alkaloids which are several hundred times more poisonous that HCN. And they where many times used to poison edged weapons and arrows.

It's not the toxicity level, but the speed of action that is important to me. The wounds need to be lethal in a matter of a minute-to-a-few and have serious physiological effects almost immediately.

I've read that nicotine is pretty fast-acting. Saxitoxin is supposed to work in a matter of min., and its LD50 is tiny.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K