Intelligence Amplification and Society

[avant-garde]

What will happen to society when those who have the capital are allowed to "amplify" their own intelligence? First of all, if anyone denies that this will happen within 50 years, please feel free to state a reason. But what will happen to people like the members of physicsforum.com, who are likely to be more intelligent/knowledgeable than the average American Idol worshipper? Is intelligence amplification (IA) a win-win scenario? Would you object to allowing certain technologies such as intelligence enhancement to be legal/egalitarian, assuming that even affordability ceases to become a problem? How do you think society (those who are more intelligent, less intelligent, and society as a whole) will respond when we enter the transitional phrase from 'man' to 'machine'?

In essence, what are the implications of allowing people to enhance their minds by manipulating/adding neural components (extra cortical columns, neurons, embedded calculators, artificial memory banks, databases, etc.) whether it provides useful computational tools or facilitates the thinking process directly?

 

[Jordan Joab]

Transhumanism here we go!

To add constructively: it's the next evolutionary step. Those that oppose progress shall be left behind. Adapt or die I say.

 

[avant-garde]

Transhumanism here we go!

To add constructively: it's the next evolutionary step. Those that oppose progress shall be left behind. Adapt or die I say.

Yes, but those that oppose progress are likely to be:
1. religiously conservative (in a general sense)
2. the ones who have the most to lose from such a technology, they are naturally gifted with higher levels of intelligence or have accumulated vast amounts of knowledge in the past. Any sort of equalizing technology will be a relative loss for these people, as there won't be as much of a demand for their intellect, thus rendering their talents useless.

Are the intellectuals who are advancing the progress of related technologies sewing their own seeds of destruction?

 

[Jordan Joab]

Yes, but those that oppose progress are likely to be:
1. religiously conservative (in a general sense)

Use this chart for these occasions.

2. the ones who have the most to lose from such a technology, they are naturally gifted with higher levels of intelligence or have accumulated vast amounts of knowledge in the past. Any sort of equalizing technology will be a relative loss for these people, as there won't be as much of a demand for their intellect, thus rendering their talents useless.

Are the intellectuals who are advancing the progress of related technologies sewing their own seeds of destruction?

I always assumed intellectuals strived for equality.

 

[sketchtrack]

I think that eventually, computers will take over most of our workforce, and most of our need for human labor. With the advances of GPS and robotics and AI in the future along with the idea of humans artificially enhanced, I suspect that the Elite will be computer enhanced masters of the machines and masters of the human race. Police forces will be mostly robots controlled by a few cyborgs. Wars will be terminator style, and there will be a day that Man goes against Machine in the biggest and bloodiest war of all times. Billions of future peasants will starve and will be murdered by patrolling robots. The robots will be controlled by cyborgs, from remote locations, and most the world will be considered terrorists. Eventually man will rise up and take on the machine in a final all or nothing battle. A leader will spring forth who leeds man
into battle and defeats the machine, but the machine will had sent a hit man back in time to kill the leader as a child. The leader in his defense will send a robot back in time programmed by himself to protect himself of the past.

 

[Werg22]

I have some serious objections to the idea of enhancing our minds or bodies. To me, this would constitute a denial of our human nature and take away from what makes us human. I'm not religious, I just think that ethical questions are as important as scientific ones.

 

[avant-garde]

I have some serious objections to the idea of enhancing our minds or bodies. To me, this would constitute a denial of our human nature and take away from what makes us human. I'm not religious, I just think that ethical questions are as important as scientific ones.

What does it mean to be human?
Wouldn't the most natural form of 'being human' be to go back to a hunter-gatherer society without any technology at all?

 

[Übermensch]

I have some serious objections to the idea of enhancing our minds or bodies. To me, this would constitute a denial of our human nature and take away from what makes us human. I'm not religious, I just think that ethical questions are as important as scientific ones.

Then how are we supposed to advance?

You can't have one thing and the other.

I'm all for science. Heck, I will sacrifice myself in the name of science by making myself the first person to have these new 'neurons'.

Just like what my screen name says here "Ubermensch", man needs to strive for the superman, in the scientific and philosophical sense.

However, Chomsky once said that mankind will never find the answers to what he is looking for. So is all this 'progress' (whether you want to think it's an illusion or not) in vain?

 

[Übermensch]

What does it mean to be human?
Wouldn't the most natural form of 'being human' be to go back to a hunter-gatherer society without any technology at all?

Exactly.

Werg22 must have some good 'hunter gatherer' skills.

 

[Evo]

What does it mean to be human?
Wouldn't the most natural form of 'being human' be to go back to a hunter-gatherer society without any technology at all?

That would be very counter-intuitive to being human. It's human nature to be curious and inventive and seek better ways to do things.

 

[LowlyPion]

What will happen to society when those who have the capital are allowed to "amplify" their own intelligence?

This has been going on for centuries to no real ill effects that I can note. Those that have the capital have gotten themselves and their progeny edumacated.

As it stands, I find it difficult to imagine what your definition of IA might happen to be. If it is using computer power to calculate, sort through, find patterns in, translate, recall, interconnect, etc. then I suppose we all are amplified or streamlined or enlarged with our reach and ability to cope with greater complexity through the technology that has sprung from our collective imaginations. But through that process there are still at the core unsynthesized individuals.

If your fear is of implanting something that embeds beneath the conscious layer, that would somehow amplify our internal thinking processes, I have to remain a little skeptical as to how efficacious that may be.

As to your point that intelligent people would feel threatened as to some supposed hegemony that they might enjoy, I would have to wonder what hegemony it is that those that are intelligent currently enjoy. Seems to me everyone, smart or less so, is subject to the same human failings.

 

[avant-garde]

If your fear is of implanting something that embeds beneath the conscious layer, that would somehow amplify our internal thinking processes, I have to remain a little skeptical as to how efficacious that may be.

As to your point that intelligent people would feel threatened as to some supposed hegemony that they might enjoy, I would have to wonder what hegemony it is that those that are intelligent currently enjoy. Seems to me everyone, smart or less so, is subject to the same human failings.

It is the equivalent of saying 'I wonder how much an olympic athlete would lose when people achieve the ability to enhance their bodies through biotech research.'

The best athletes would lose all the significance they worked hard for over the years. And it will happen in a matter of seconds (injection of needle, pill, you name it).

 

[WarPhalange]

Yeah, sucks to be them. I don't know whether you can inject knowledge into a person. Even if you can make them understand things easier, they still have to spend time learning the information.

Also, "intellectuals" have a lot to gain by having a smarter society. For one, people won't ridicule them for being smart and trying to help out society (e.g. creationists saying things like "what has science ever done to help us?"), and secondly, if people weren't such stupid idiots we wouldn't have as many wars and stuff like that because people would see through the lies easier and know who to hold accountable.

 

[Evo]

It is the equivalent of saying 'I wonder how much an olympic athlete would lose when people achieve the ability to enhance their bodies through biotech research.'

The best athletes would lose all the significance they worked hard for over the years. And it will happen in a matter of seconds (injection of needle, pill, you name it).

I really don't see that as any great loss. Athletes have been taking steroids for years anyway. And if people could become "bionic" then you would have the bionic people and you could still have "natural" athletes, similar to today where athletes in the Olympics aren't supposed to take drugs to enhance performance.

 

[LowlyPion]

It is the equivalent of saying 'I wonder how much an olympic athlete would lose when people achieve the ability to enhance their bodies through biotech research.'

The best athletes would lose all the significance they worked hard for over the years. And it will happen in a matter of seconds (injection of needle, pill, you name it).

I'm sorry. I have to say so what? It's just entertainment.

 

[jostpuur]

Imagine having Wolfram Integrator constantly online in your brains... :!)

 

[avant-garde]

I really don't see that as any great loss. Athletes have been taking steroids for years anyway. And if people could become "bionic" then you would have the bionic people and you could still have "natural" athletes, similar to today where athletes in the Olympics aren't supposed to take drugs to enhance performance.

But athletics only applies to the realm of entertainment.
The more relevant issue here is intelligence; in our capitalist society, people will hire you even if your intelligence was not "earned." The only thing that is seen in the eyes of employers is profit.

 

[Evo]

But athletics only applies to the realm of entertainment.

You're the one that brought it up.

The more relevant issue here is intelligence; in our capitalist society, people will hire you even if your intelligence was not "earned." The only thing that is seen in the eyes of employers is profit.

A lot of very intelligent people are in menial jobs because lack of money or unfortunate circumstances prevented them from getting a higher education. People in many of the highest paying jobs aren't highly intellectual or even very bright, instead they are ruthless, fake, unscrupulous, untrustworthy, etc... I think you have a lot to learn about the world.

 

[LowlyPion]

The more relevant issue here is intelligence; in our capitalist society, people will hire you even if your intelligence was not "earned." The only thing that is seen in the eyes of employers is profit.

Capitalists hire people or use technology for results at the lowest price because that maximizes the spread between what something costs with what something can be sold for. People get replaced by computers everyday.

That has nothing to do with evolution.

If your concern stems from a more personal situation, then I can only advise you to study harder and educate your brain with even more effort.

 

[avant-garde]

You're the one that brought it up.

A lot of very intelligent people are in menial jobs because lack of money or unfortunate circumstances prevented them from getting a higher education. People in many of the highest paying jobs aren't highly intellectual or even very bright, instead they are ruthless, fake, unscrupulous, untrustworthy, etc... I think you have a lot to learn about the world.

Whoa there, bud. No need to lean over to the ad hominem side. First of all, you have no clue how old I am, or how much knowledge I have. So please set aside the personal comments and if you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say it.

And yes, I know that I brought up the athletics issue. But I was pointing out that athletics is only an example to facilitate my reasoning, but the real issue was intelligence.

 

[Evo]

First of all, you have no clue how old I am, or how much knowledge I have.

Very true, I am basing my opinion on what you have said and how you have said it. It's not a condemnation, merely an observation.

It was not meant as a slight but as a constructive criticism of perhaps not taking human nature (looking back through our past) into consideration.

On that note, what is your opinion of the concerns you raise when you do consider how humans have progressed? I think LowlyPion provided some excellent insight in response to your concerns.

BTW, I apologize if you were offended, I tend to be overly blunt and should realize how my comment could have offended you.

 

[Andre]

Given the extremely poor record for mankind to predict future accomplishments, I think the OP is rather imaginary and speculative. So, Evo, you may be too mild there. Perhaps the thread should be moved to science fiction.

 

[sketchtrack]

Everyone is stressing the effect it will have on capitalism, but what about communist countries like china. They may force people to be enhanced, and as long as they are forcing babies to be implanted, what is to stop them from using it for mind control purposes? Surely it is already possible for brain implants to manipulate thoughts, emotions and memory. I watched a documentary about a women who got an implant that makes her happy and giggly. All they need to do is record brain wave patterns and they can simulate what they record therefore artificially inducing whatever was going on in the first place.

This is going to be a very powerful advancement in technology, and I think the uses could range from good to bad. The thing is that anything that can be used as a weapon will be, and you must expect that.

 

[LowlyPion]

They may force people to be enhanced, and as long as they are forcing babies to be implanted, what is to stop them from using it for mind control purposes?

I'm sorry but implants, enhanced [intelligence?], mind control? This is the stuff of fantasy as it would apply to the human brain.

Surely it is already possible for brain implants to manipulate thoughts, emotions and memory. I watched a documentary about a women who got an implant that makes her happy and giggly.

Are you really concerned that they will weaponize laughter?

Besides if you are to be controlled like zombies, who is going to be working the joy sticks? If it takes someone to control, then isn't it easier for them to just do it themselves?

 

[Evo]

Everyone is stressing the effect it will have on capitalism, but what about communist countries like china. They may force people to be enhanced, and as long as they are forcing babies to be implanted, what is to stop them from using it for mind control purposes? Surely it is already possible for brain implants to manipulate thoughts, emotions and memory. I watched a documentary about a women who got an implant that makes her happy and giggly. All they need to do is record brain wave patterns and they can simulate what they record therefore artificially inducing whatever was going on in the first place.

This is going to be a very powerful advancement in technology, and I think the uses could range from good to bad. The thing is that anything that can be used as a weapon will be, and you must expect that.

Forcing babies to be implanted? Post a link to a reputable source.

As far as a woman having a brain implant to make her happy and giddy, you are misinterpreting whatever you saw. Again, post a link.

 

[sketchtrack]

Forcing babies to be implanted? Post a link to a reputable source.

As far as a woman having a brain implant to make her happy and giddy, you are misinterpreting whatever you saw. Again, post a link.

I'm not saying that they are doing it now, I'm only suggesting the possibility of it happening in the future. The reason I suggested this is because in some countries children are screened for their abilities at very young ages and are picked and assigned jobs by the government. Why not pick the son or daughter of a genus and implant him at birth and send him off to be a spy or something. I can picture it happening though I am not accusing.

The women did have an implant that made her giddy, saw it last night on the science channel. They showed her being interviewed in the hospital bed right after surgery and she was all giddy and talking about how happy she feels already.

 

[Übermensch]

If I had a baby, I would dip her/him into a bowl of knowledge. She/He would then become the new Einstein.

 

[LowlyPion]

If I had a baby, I would dip her/him into a bowl of knowledge. She/He would then become the new Einstein.

Don't forget the heels.

They always forget to dip the heels.

 

[LowlyPion]

The women did have an implant that made her giddy, ...

And sometimes implants make the partner happy too. But that begs the question of how some "giddy" implant would be used to control a population anymore than say giving away loads of recreational drugs.

 

[sketchtrack]

And sometimes implants make the partner happy too. But that begs the question of how some "giddy" implant would be used to control a population anymore than say giving away loads of recreational drugs.

The implant doesn't have the side effects. The people who are getting these have a long history of trying to use prescription drugs to fight the depression, but it only made it worse in the long run.

 

[sketchtrack]

Just imagine the olympic ceremonies you could pull off with thousands of cyborgs. It actually makes me wonder if chinas already doing it?

 

[Math Is Hard]

Don't forget the heels.

They always forget to dip the heels.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[sketchtrack]

If they someday master immortality and master interfacing the brain with a computer, the future is going to be crazy.

I wonder if people will get themselves giant robot bodies with all moving parts interfaced with the brain, that can fly, swim to the bottom of the oceans travel through space. Go see Mars first hand and come back the same age. Go to titan and swim around under the ice.

We could have autopilot for when we sleep. We could go to work take a nap put the autopilot on and let the computer do all the thinking. We could make certain things an automated process and block our memory for those periods of time so it seams instantaneous.

I would head for a distant galaxy, put autopilot on, put myself into hibernate mode and it seam as if I just step from one galaxy to the next in a single instant. Maybe set an alarm system that wakes you under certain circumstances that may be dangerous or would require your consent.

 

[LowlyPion]

If they someday master immortality and master interfacing the brain with a computer, the future is going to be crazy.

I wonder if people will get themselves giant robot bodies with all moving parts interfaced with the brain, that can fly, swim to the bottom of the oceans travel through space. Go see Mars first hand and come back the same age. Go to titan and swim around under the ice.

Not to rain on your parade too much, but that's a rather impressive energy footprint you are imagining there.

 

[sketchtrack]

Hey man its the future, you never know