Interchanging a position between two reference frames?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the mathematical relationship between position vectors in two different reference frames, specifically frames A and B. The position vector from the origin of frame A to a point P, denoted as r_{OP}, is related to the position vector from the origin of frame B to the same point, r_{O'P}, through the equation r_{OO'} = r_{OP} + r_{PO'}. However, the participants emphasize that vector addition cannot be applied directly across different orientations of reference frames, as this leads to incorrect conclusions about the positions of points in those frames.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of vector mathematics and positional vectors
  • Familiarity with reference frames in physics
  • Knowledge of vector addition and its limitations
  • Basic concepts from classical mechanics, particularly from Kleppner and Kolenkow
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  • Study the principles of vector transformations between different reference frames
  • Learn about the implications of changing orientations in reference frames
  • Explore the concept of relative motion in classical mechanics
  • Investigate the mathematical framework of coordinate transformations
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Students of physics, particularly those studying classical mechanics, as well as educators and anyone interested in understanding the complexities of vector relationships in different reference frames.

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[itex]\vec{r}_a[/itex] is a positional vector from reference frame [itex]a[/itex]. What is the position of same point from reference frame [itex]b[/itex] ?
If required, assume position of origin of frame [itex]a[/itex] is [itex]\vec{m}[/itex] and unit point (i.e. [itex]\langle 1,1,1\rangle_a[/itex] ) is [itex]\vec{n}[/itex] from reference frame [itex]b[/itex].

I am studying Kleppner and Kolenkow and this is the first thing I asked myself. Unexpectedly its taking a while to figure it out. So help needed.
 
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Let ##O## denote the origin of frame ##A## and let ##r_{OP}## denote the position vector from ##O## to some point ##P##. Now let's say we have a frame ##B## with origin ##O'## (which may or may not be changing with time) in frame ##A##; denote by ##r_{OO'}## the position vector from the origin of frame ##A## to that of frame ##B##. Here is a crude diagram: http://postimg.org/image/ynt4tab6f/full/

Notice, from the diagram, that ##r_{OO'} = r_{OP} + r_{PO'}## where clearly ##r_{PO'} = -r_{O'P}##. This gives you the relationship between the position vector from ##O'## to ##P## to the position vector from ##O## to ##P## in terms of how ##O'## is positioned relative to ##O##.
 
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WannabeNewton said:
Let ##O## denote the origin of frame ##A## and let ##r_{OP}## denote the position vector from ##O## to some point ##P##. Now let's say we have a frame ##B## with origin ##O'## (which may or may not be changing with time) in frame ##A##; denote by ##r_{OO'}## the position vector from the origin of frame ##A## to that of frame ##B##. Here is a crude diagram: http://postimg.org/image/ynt4tab6f/full/

Notice, from the diagram, that ##r_{OO'} = r_{OP} + r_{PO'}## where clearly ##r_{PO'} = -r_{O'P}##. This gives you the relationship between the position vector from ##O'## to ##P## to the position vector from ##O## to ##P## in terms of how ##O'## is positioned relative to ##O##.

No, its wrong to use of addition of vector law to add to vectors from different reference frame. For example consider two frames with same origin at O' but with different oriantitions. According to ##r_{OO'} = r_{OP} + r_{PO'}##, the ##r_{OO'}## for each frame would coinsides. But they should not if ##r_{O'P}## for each do not coinsides.

lkfix9i.png
 
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