Interesting property of idempotent 10-adic number

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a special number constructed from the number 5 through a process of squaring and appending digits. Participants explore the implications of this construction in both 10-adic and p-adic number systems, questioning the convergence and existence of the number in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a method of constructing a number by repeatedly squaring 5 and appending the next digit of the square, leading to a special number F.
  • Another participant proposes that the number can be viewed as the limit L = limn→∞ 52n, suggesting that L2 = L implies L could be 0 or 1.
  • It is noted that while the sequence does not converge in the 10-adic numbers, it converges in the 5-adic numbers, where it equals 0.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the limit L being equal to the constructed number F, particularly due to discrepancies in the digits of F and the results of squaring.
  • One participant proposes an inductive proof that the first n digits of the constructed number squared equal the first n digits of the number itself.
  • Another participant introduces a similar construction starting from 2, suggesting that the properties observed with 5 might extend to other bases under certain conditions.
  • Discussion includes a note that the proof relies on the ending digit being 5 to ensure certain multiplicative properties hold true.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the convergence of the sequence in various number systems, and whether the constructed number F can be equated to the limit L. There is no consensus on the validity of the limit or the nature of the number in the context of 10-adic and p-adic numbers.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations related to the convergence of sequences in different number systems and the implications of the properties of specific digits in the construction process. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions of convergence and the nature of the number systems involved.

Happiness
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We build a special number from ##5##, by squaring it, appending the next digit of the square to it and repeating the steps.

##5^2=25.## The next digit is 2, which is added to 5 to give 25.

##25^2=625.## The next digit is 6, which is added to 25 to give 625.

##625^2=390625.## The next digit is 0, which is added to 625 to give 0625.

##0625^2=390625.## The next digit is 9, which is added to 0625 to give 90625.

##90625^2=8212890625.## The next digit is 8, which is added to 90625 to give 890625.

We end up with the special number ##F=\,...\,4106619977392256259918212890625.##

Why is it that the number in every step shares the same digits as its square? In other words, prove the existence of this number.

Source: https://divisbyzero.com/2008/12/29/a-10-adic-number-that-is-a-zero-divisor/
(The article mentioned that the digit 6 can be used. But I don't think so because ##36\times36=1296##, which doesn't end with 36.)
 
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The number seems to be the limit ##L=\lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} 5^{2^n}##. We see that
[tex]L^2 = \lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} (5^{2^n})^2 = \lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} 5^{2^{n+1}} = L[/tex]
So ##L^2 = L## meaning that your number is ##L=0## or ##L = 1##.

We see that
[tex]|5^{2^n}|_{10} = 1~\text{and}~|5^{2^n} - 1|_{10} = 1[/tex]
so the sequence doesn't converge. It does converge in the ##5##-adic numbers:

[tex]|5^{2^n}|_5 = 2^{-n}[/tex]
So your number equals ##0## in the ##5##-adic numbers.

EDIT: the number does exist in the ##10##-adic numbers. The ##10##-adics are not an integral domain so ##L^2 = L~\Rightarrow~L\in \{0,1\}## is not valid. The number doesn't seem to be a rational number though
 
micromass said:
The number seems to be the limit ##L=\lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} 5^{2^n}##. We see that
[tex]L^2 = \lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} (5^{2^n})^2 = \lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} 5^{2^{n+1}} = L[/tex]
So ##L^2 = L## meaning that your number is ##L=0## or ##L = 1##.

We see that
[tex]|5^{2^n}|_{10} = 1~\text{and}~|5^{2^n} - 1|_{10} = 1[/tex]
so the sequence doesn't converge. It does converge in the ##5##-adic numbers:

[tex]|5^{2^n}|_5 = 2^{-n}[/tex]
So your number equals ##0## in the ##5##-adic numbers.

EDIT: the number does exist in the ##10##-adic numbers. The ##10##-adics are not an integral domain so ##L^2 = L~\Rightarrow~L\in \{0,1\}## is not valid. The number doesn't seem to be a rational number though

I am not familiar with p-adic numbers. Could this be proved without using p-adic numbers?
 
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micromass said:
The number seems to be the limit ##L=\lim_{n\rightarrow +\infty} 5^{2^n}##.

##625^2=390625## but ##F## ends with ##890625##. So I think ##F## may not be the limit ##L##.
 
Happiness said:
##625^2=390625## but ##F## ends with ##890625##. So I think ##F## may not be the limit ##L##.

Yes, you're right. I misunderstood the OP.
 
OK, so let ##a_n## be the number formed by the first ##n## digits of ##F##. We know by construction that the ##nth## digit of ##a_n## is the ##n##th digit of ##a_{n-1}^2##. We prove by induction that the first ##n## digits of ##a_n^2## equal ##a_n##.

We can obviously write ##a_n = x 10^n + a_{n-1}##. Squaring gives us
[tex]a_n^2 = x^2 10^{2n} + 2x10^n a_{n-1} + a_{n-1}^2[/tex]
We are interested in the first ##n## digits of this number. The number ##x^2 10^{2n}## has a zero on its first ##2n## digits, so it plays no role. The first ##n-1## digits of ##2x10^n a_{n-1}## are zero. The ##n##th digit of this number is the first digit of ##2xa_{n-1}##. But since the first digit of ##a_{n-1}## is ##5##, we get that this first digit is the first digit of ##2\cdot 5\cdot x##, that is: the first digit is ##0##.

So the first ##n## digits of ##a_n^2## are the first ##n## digits of ##a_{n-1}^2##, like we wanted.
 
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micromass said:
We can obviously write ##a_n = x 10^n + a_{n-1}##.

##a_2=25=2(10)+5=2(10^1)+a_1##.

So ##a_n = x 10^{n-1} + a_{n-1}##.

Right?
 
Right sorry, I should have proof read it. But the proof still goes through modulo these notational errors.
 
Using the same proof, I discovered a similar number:

[tex]2^5 = \mathbf{32},~32^5 = 33554\mathbf{432},~432^5 = 1504591950\mathbf{6432}, ...[/tex]
 
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The proof needs a slight modification, and relies on the ending number being 5 to make 2x*5 a multiple of 10.
That also explains why it works with 5 but not with 6.

The fifth power, starting with 2, also works because then 5x*2 is a multiple of 10. Apart from higher powers (^10, ^15, ... with 2, or ^4, ^6, ... with 5) that should be all we have in the decimal system. Other bases lead to similar results. Start with a divisor in this system, then use a power such that starting number * power is a multiple of the base.
 
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