Investigating the Potential of Nuclear Fusion

[Phrak]

This isn't specifically a Rossi thread, but ok...

Poorly characterized options notwithstanding, that's spectacularly naive. We see hoaxes like that all the time. They really aren't that hard to do and are often highly successful. It really shouldn't be much of a stretch to think it is possible to hoax.

And for the second - it's hard to imagine so easily dismissing a century's worth of hard science! People making that bet are what keep guys like Rossi and the guys who run Steorn and the host of other perpetual motion hoaxster/frauds in business. Ever heard of Joe Newman? He's made a living for 30 years selling a non-existent magnet-based perpetual motion machine. He got his big break landing a CBS news interview in 1984 and you can parlay that kind of worthless credibility into a semi-prosperous career.

You don't have to bet any of us, you can bet it directly on Rossi or Steorn or Newman or any of the host of others (any would be happy to take your credit card info online). But please don't. Eventually, you'll regret it. Yes, it is, but it isn't just the maturity of the physical sciences that makes us suspicious, it's the attitude and secrecy. They scream 'I'm a crackpot!' Rossi is following the crackpot manual perfectly. Not after the disastrous mistake with Pons and Fleishman, no. Scientists and the scientific community are smart enough not to get sucked-in by a circus ringmaster putting on a show for them again. So I don't think that that sort of thing is likely to happen again. They rightfully demand that science be done scientifically or it gets ignored. Rossi has chosen not to do his thing scientifically, so he is rightfully shunned. That's a negative characterization of a perfectly reasonable thing: yes, scientists are biased against things that their theories tell them are impossible and yes, they are biased against people who don't follow the scientific process. Those are positive things that are critical to making science work. I know you won't accept this, but that will never happen. That just plain isn't how these things work. Rossi can drag this out for decades, always being just a few months from releasing his research. That's how these things work. It's in the manual! Heck, this forum is littered with examples like Steorn. Even theoretically sound concepts that just have massive practical problems are good fodder for the exact same thing (perhaps even better - See: Bloom Box). There's a 1km solar power tower that's been a few months from groundbreaking in Australia for the past 10 years or so. And they have government funding! Despite nothing to show for their decade of work, they're expanding operations into the US.

One of us will have mud on their face.

 

[Phrak]

You don't have to bet any of us, you can bet it directly on Rossi or Steorn or Newman or any of the host of others (any would be happy to take your credit card info online).

You have no idea how to vest in this, do you? Ask your sister.

Those are positive things that are critical to making science work. I know you won't accept this, but that will never happen.

I especially like this quote. You're way out of your league.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I especially like this quote. You're way out of your league.

I'm really confused reading this thread as to why you are so sure that there is someone in the world who has invented a cold fusion reactor (essentially in his back garden) when over a century of physics has shown us that it's not possible.

 

[Phrak]

Some people have better gardens then your own. I suggest taking advice from those that have nice looking gardens over those that talk a lot and have crap in their yards. And try to do a little thinking on your own over deference to authority. Sucking up to authority is irritating.

If you have something to add above your religous devotions to labeled authority, spit it out.

I tried to do my best at intimidating the pretenders hanging on Russ's coat tails in order to bolster their self worth, but i guess you missed the hint.

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I'd like to think that science, as interpretted on this forum, is more than the deference to the opinions of personalities.

 

[Drakkith]

Some people have better gardens then your own. You should be more observationally astute in your cultivation, or you will be prone to taking advice from the those that only have crappy gardens rather then those that have nice ones.

Cold fusion is like planting tomatoes in your garden and having potato's pop up instead. Well, not really, but I can say random nonsense too.

 

[JaredJames]

Where do you get this notion? Was it the 6 o'clock news with Connie Chung?

The evidence as I find it, gleaned from comments in the media

Hypocrite, thy name is you.

You attack ryan for stating scientific theory as support of his argument, asking if it comes from the "6 o'clock news" and yet you sit here admitting your own evidence to support it is possible comes from the media.

Everything Rossi has done ticks off the 'crackpot checklist' nicely. Just to run off the two main points:
1) He maintains a secret 'factor' to prevent copying or proving his results.
2) A company has been setup in Greece specifically to market this product without providing any proof it works.

As previously, let's just wait until his machine is up and running in October before we blindly accept him and rewrite science.

 

[Drakkith]

The naive application of theory in the nucleosynthesis of copper from nickel + hydrogen would evolve beta particles yielding gamma radiation in the 5 MeV range. However the shielding in use has been described as one to two cm. of lead. 2 cm will attenuate only about 50% of gamma rays at these energies, though it has been reported that no measurable difference from the background radiation was measured during operation of the device.

If there are beta particles from the reaction of nickel + hydrogen, then that means that one of the neutrons in the copper is being converted into a proton, right? Shouldn't this lead to NO copper, as it would be adding 2 protons to the nickel nucleus for every reaction? Nickel + 2 protons = Zinc.

 

[Drakkith]

Some people have better gardens then your own. I suggest taking advice from those that have nice looking gardens over those that talk a lot and have crap in their yards. And try to do a little thinking on your own over deference to authority. Sucking up to authority is irritating.

I'd like to think that science, as interpretted on this forum, is more than the deference to the opinions of personalities.

I suppose getting an education in science is sucking up to authority? Well, let me return my Meade Deep Sky Imager and grab a copy of Lowrider and a beer...one can't suck up to authority now can we?

I'd like to think that science, as interpretted on this forum, is more than the deference to the opinions of personalities.

Which personality would that be? The laws of thermodynamics? I will GLADLY defer to them any day.

 

[Phrak]

I suppose getting an education in science is sucking up to authority? Well, let me return my Meade Deep Sky Imager and grab a copy of Lowrider and a beer...one can't suck up to authority now can we?

Which personality would that be? The laws of thermodynamics? I will GLADLY defer to them any day.

Toward the end of the year of 2011 this should be resolved. I'll be very happy to castrate you over your strident opinion at some future time in a new thread exponding your opinions and those of the the rest. However, your post is a bit difficult. Would you care to say something more diffinative along the lines of "Cold Fusion is Bunk"? I would get a lot of milage out of this if you have the balls.

You, in your own turn, should ask me about my own stance. Are you capable? Care to play?



As much as you folks are incapapable in discussing physics, this seems to be all that is left.

 

[JaredJames]

Considering the only thing going for cold fusion at the moment is Rossi, and he's working straight from 'crackpot 101', you seem very confident it's real.

Care to share your insider information Phrak?

And for the record, I don't give a d*mn what Russ or anyone else here thinks of me.

 

[Phrak]

Considering the only thing going for cold fusion at the moment is Rossi, and he's working straight from 'crackpot 101', you seem very confident it's real.

Care to share your insider information Phrak?

I don't have insider information. I have what you both have, Jared and James; internet access to information. I've been actively grinding numbers on scant information for two weeks or so and weighing personalities.

The odds are good in favor.

The economnic advanage over crude is slightly favorable. The econcomic advantage over natural gas is unfavorable within the US, in my cursory estimate.

 

[JaredJames]

I have what you both have, Jared and James; internet access to information.

Apparently ditching the "n" from my name has made no difference.

For the record, I am one person, Jared James. That is my name.

(Not a dig at you, everyone does it.)

I've been actively grinding numbers on scant information for two weeks or so and weighing personalities.

The odds are good in favor.

Numbers? The only numbers are what Rossi puts out. There is no independent verification and no substantial evidence provided.

There's nothing to make a judgement on at the moment outside of commenting on the methods used. He's hiding the process so we can't say whether it's real or not. However, you must note that there is nothing in his favour at the moment outside of what he claims.

The proof will come soon enough. For some reason, I want it to work but there's just nothing going for him right now.

 

[kowalskil]

Apparently ditching the "n" from my name has made no difference.

For the record, I am one person, Jared James. That is my name.

(Not a dig at you, everyone does it.)


Numbers? The only numbers are what Rossi puts out. There is no independent verification and no substantial evidence provided.

There's nothing to make a judgement on at the moment outside of commenting on the methods used. He's hiding the process so we can't say whether it's real or not. However, you must note that there is nothing in his favour at the moment outside of what he claims.

The proof will come soon enough. For some reason, I want it to work but there's just nothing going for him right now.

Furthermore, secrecy--after making a claim--is not part of our scientific methodology.

 

[russ_watters]

Okay, wow - this went downhill fast! It's over.

It would be nice if we could just put this on hold until November 1 and reopen it then for the the "I told you so" moment (for whoever gets it), but unfortunately that's not how these things work. Even legitimate projects get delayed, so we could be sitting here a year from now in exactly the same position.