Is a 2-body elliptical orbit stable in GR?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the stability of a two-body elliptical orbit in the context of General Relativity (GR), particularly in relation to gravitational radiation and the behavior of black holes. Participants explore whether elliptical orbits can be considered stable in GR and how gravitational waves affect orbital dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that circular orbits are gravitationally stable in GR, while questioning the stability of elliptical orbits and their behavior during the collapse of black holes.
  • Another participant argues that no orbital system is stable in GR due to the effects of gravitational radiation, suggesting that all orbits eventually decay over time.
  • A different participant clarifies that gravitational radiation does not necessitate an elliptical orbit, but rather depends on the changing distribution of mass, which can occur in various orbital configurations.
  • One participant notes that orbits are not strictly elliptical in GR, referencing the precession of Mercury's orbit as an example of GR's implications on orbital shapes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability of elliptical orbits in GR, with no consensus reached. Some argue that all orbits decay due to gravitational radiation, while others suggest that the nature of the orbit may not be the sole factor influencing stability.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of gravitational radiation and its effects on orbital dynamics, indicating that assumptions about stability may depend on specific conditions and definitions of orbits in GR.

Buzz Bloom
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I understand that in a 2-body system a circular orbit is gravitationally stable in General Relativity. In Newtonian dynamics, an elliptical orbit is also stable, but is this also true in GR? I understand that the orbit precesses, but I do not intend that to change my meaning regarding stability.

What prompts this question is the now documented phenomenon of a pair of black holes radiating away their mutual gravitational potential energy as gravitational waves, and ultimately collapsing together to form a single black hole. I am curious about whether this phenomenon depends on an elliptical orbit or on some other mechanism.

If an elliptical orbit is unstable in GR, how does the eccentricity change during the collapse? Does it grow, shrink, or remain the same?
 
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I don't believe any orbital system is stable in GR due to gravitational radiation. The time scale may be enormous, but all orbits decay.
 
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Buzz Bloom said:
What prompts this question is the now documented phenomenon of a pair of black holes radiating away their mutual gravitational potential energy as gravitational waves, and ultimately collapsing together to form a single black hole. I am curious about whether this phenomenon depends on an elliptical orbit or on some other mechanism.
Gravitational radiation does not require an elliptical orbit. It only requires that the distribution of mass changes as seen from a given direction so that at some point the masses have a maximum elongation in one direction and at some other point they have a minimum elongation in the same direction (and possibly a maximum in some other). For a pair of orbiting objects, the maximum elongation occurs twice per orbit, so the frequency of the radiation is twice the orbit frequency.

For more information, see the Wikipedia article: Gravitational wave
 
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Also, orbits are not elliptical in GR - even if you neglect the gravitational radiation. The postdiction of Mercury's orbital precession was one of the first strong hints for GR.
 
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