Is a Flat Tax the Solution for American Taxpayers?

[Zero]

Originally posted by GlamGein

As for Democrats not liking the idea, imagine what 17% is to a working single mother compared to the CEO of a big corporation. The CEO would have what, one less SUV or Airplane, while the mother would have less food for her child. Big difference there.

A working single mother is LAZY, that's why she isn't a millionaire...haven't you read this thread?

 

[Tog_Neve]

kyleB

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html
That one you will see that it shows "State with the highest number (of returns with AGI>$1 million) which is California.

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/02db06co.xls
Shows total gross IR collections
Showing California as paying $232,301,672,000 which is about $50 Billion more than NY (#2).

And would agree that with the increase in the income comes the ability to find more loopholes by hiring more accountants and the like.
But does not change the fact that even if they make a billion dollars but are able to report only a million then they are still paying as to the figures mentioned above...it would take 148 of me to equal the same amount as what that person paid.


Tog

 

[kyleb]

oh sure, more total but less %; when i say flat tax i mean not the same for everyone but get rid of the loopholes as well. however GENIERE has me sold on sales tax only now, that sounds like a really good system. oh, and thanks for the links.

 

[Dissident Dan]

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html reports gross individual income tax collections as 1.178 trillion. Add in all the other tax collections, and you get 2.09 trillion.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html reports the 2001 GDP at 10.082 trillion. Gross individual income tax collections are 11.6% of that. Total gross tax collections are 20.7% of that.

According to http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html, per capita money income in 1999 was $21,587. They estimate that there were 284,796,887 in 2001. If we use a figure of $22K per person, with 285 million people, we have $6.27 trillion. To get the $1.178 trillion out of a flat tax rate from that, you need a rate of about 28%. That's a hefty chunk of change for someone who makes $10K a year. Instead of $10K, he has $7200.

-------
EDIT

I messed up, it's 18.8%, or 19% rounded, that the tax rate would need to be for a flat tax to generate the same amount of income...it seems to me that a lot of people are evading their taxes..

Anyway, for someone who makes $10K/year, that would be reduced to ~$8100/year.

 

[Tog_Neve]

Geniere and Kyleb

You put out some statistics but let us examine them some more.

----------------IRS------------FBI---------Border Patrol
Annual Budget--$7.8b----------$3.0b----------$0.7b
# of Emp------100,551---------11,271---------6,848
budget/emp-----77,572---------266,169-------102,196
Avg Sal----------------approx 39,000/yr----------- (GS level 7 at about 6 years)
Showing that a larger percentage of budgetary funds is used to pay salaries in the IRS than in FBI or border patrol. Which is understandable...The FBI and Border Patrol have more hardware to maintain and such. Whereas the IRS is more of a simple people organization.

Lets look at those tax code numbers
-----------------Num Pages--------Num Words-------avg words/page
IR Code -----------9,471----------5.75 mil----------607
Tax Code Regs-----91,824----------1.3 mil-----------14
War and Peace-----1,444-----------660,000-----------457
Holy Bible--------1,291-----------774,746-----------600
So the IR code is about as condense as the Bible.

Now this is not stating that the tax code could use a revamp...even if structure is left the same the tax code could be cleaned up a bit. Many left over tid bits of things that are out dated and such...similar to laws in most states that have relevance for things 100 years ago but none now.

And Kyleb I fail to see how Geniere has brought forth anything that would show how benificial an elimination of income tax and bringing in sales tax would be benificial in any way. Maybe I missed it. But as someone else pointed out the sales tax would have to be in the range of 20% or more in order to cover the cost. Put that on top of your local sales tax as well and you could be paying close to 30% sales tax. That would be on pretty much everything sold...including the trip to McDonalds.

A sales tax based system for the federal gment is not stable enough to account for accurately. We evaluate the sales index on a monthly basis. And it changes monthly...sales go up and down depending on what is going on in the world, the time of year, and many many other factors. However you can accurately predict income for the nation. YOu can more accurately predict that if 95% of the nation is employed and making 30K per year then next year close to 95% of the nation will be employed and probably making at least 30K per year if not closer to 32K per year (raises to equal possible inflation index).

Tog

 

[Dissident Dan]

To advocates of a flat taxing rate:

Do you find it acceptable to make everyone pay 18%? That seems unreasonably high for people below the poverty line. It seems unreasonably low for fat cats whose companies require the SEC, EPA, Trademark and Patents offices, and various other government organizations to be run.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Dissident Dan
To advocates of a flat taxing rate:

Do you find it acceptable to make everyone pay 18%? That seems unreasonably high for people below the poverty line. It seems unreasonably low for fat cats whose companies require the SEC, EPA, Trademark and Patents offices, and various other government organizations to be run.

Yeah, I said that 2 pages ago, but it was conveniently ignored. Its always conveniently ignored.

 

[Njorl]

Originally posted by GENIERE
Njori - The average overpayment by taxpayers who do not itemize such things as motgage payments was less than $500.00 per the GAO. It seems unlikely that half would default for lack of about 1/2 months morgage payment. Those that might are likely to be under the income level of $35,000.00/yr. who would pay no taxes.


Regards

This is an illogical conclusion. Those who chose not to itemize usually know that their overpayment will be small. Most are in the late years of their mortgage. Someone in the first years of a mortgage would wind up paying about $3000-$6000 thousand more per year. That's $250 to $500 dollars a month. That is foreclosure for millions.

Njorl