Is a vegan diet healthy if you get enough plant protein?

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I'm not making this thread to start any sort of philisophical discussion about the rights of animals or anything, so please don't turn it into that.

I was wondering if there's any real health advantage to eating vegan. Obviously too much fatty meat and other animal products isn't that good for you, but is cutting animal products out of your diet completely healthy, assuming you replace it with plant based proteins such as those found in soy, nuts and the like?
 
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No long term study that have been done on vegan versus vegetarian or order diet. Vegan do promote some healthy habits such as eat fruit and vegetable. Nuts and some fruit such as avocado do have fat, it is good fat but the effect of too much good fat is not that well study. In term of nutrient, the diet can full it up but there some nutrient that migth be more difficult to obtain from vegetal.

There is many vegan at our univeristy department but most do not seen to be healthier than the average person. Some look a bit too thin in my opinion, it is as if they are starving but I bet they do not have many physical activities in their schedules. I have not seen many in intramurals sports or at the gym.
 
I'm not sure I've read anything conclusive as to whether or not eating vegan is healthier than other diets or not. However, to get all of the proper nutrients and vitamins to maintain optimum health, I've heard that a person would need to be snacking pretty much constantly in addition to regular meals; unless they were taking suppliments. Which is something a lot of vegans don't want to do, supposedly because vegan suppliments are hard to come by. Don't quote me on that one tho.

From my experience ( I haven't been vegan but have been friends with many..), I've never met a vegan that didn't look slender, if not downright underweight.

If one factors in things like bovine growth hormones in dairy and hormones and antibiotics in meats, then I can see how being vegan could potentially be safer. So long one manages to avoid the franken-soy, corn and tomato stuffs out there.
 
There is no way to answer this question with the information given. People give a type of "diet" a name and ask if it is healthly or not.

For example: If one were eating a vegan type diet, which was centered around sugar, would that be healthy. I think not.

Instead of using a fancy name, why not post your typical diet or the typical diet you are contemplating. Starting with breakfast and naming each meal along the way. Then list your exercise habits. At that time I can look at your diet and exercise and deteremine whether that is healthy or not.

Nautica
 
I'm not vegan and have no plans on becoming vegan, I'm merely curious.

I'm not sure an exact diet to ask about, but I want to know if there's anything that simply can't be found in plant products, like a certain protein found only in meat that is nessicary for your cell membranes to stay at their optimum level of selective permeability.
 
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Originally posted by wasteofo2
I'm not sure an exact diet to ask about, but I want to know if there's anything that simply can't be found in plant products, like a certain protein found only in meat that is nessicary for your cell membranes to stay at their optimum level of selective permeability.
Cholesterol maybe?
 
I am almost certain that a vegan diet could be healthly. Proteins could come from soy products, Omega 3's could come from flaxseed oils and olive oils, and of course vitamins would not be a problem.

It, also, depends on the persons life style. I enjoy lifting weights and do not feel that I could ever get enough protein without meat. But for others, 200 - 300 grams of protein per day is not neccesary.

Nautica
 
I was amazed by the loads of meat an 'American' eats on a day, especially in restaurants
 
Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"? Does that mean no meat at all?
 
Originally posted by Mentat
Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"? Does that mean no meat at all?

No meat, no animal products, no firs, no leather, ect...

Nautica
 
no animal products at all. No eggs, I guess no pies either since there is whipped cream or gelatine inside.
 
Originally posted by Mentat
Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"?

No animal product at all. No milk, yogurt, cheeze, egg, butter or anything that has animal fat as an ingredient or animal by-product.

I know meat can give some creatine and iron in a concentration that are not found in plants.
 
Originally posted by Monique
I was amazed by the loads of meat an 'American' eats on a day, especially in restaurants

Keep in mind that one can eat meat and eat healthy. Example: chicken, salmon, tuna, turkey, lean red meat, ect...

Nautica
 
I don't think a pound of rare steak fits in there..
 
Originally posted by Monique
I don't think a pound of rare steak fits in there..

Maybe, not but it sure does sound good. And a person can actually, stay quite lean and eat that amount.

Nautica
 
Originally posted by Monique
Cholesterol maybe?
That’s interesting, about 8 months ago, we had something like a quiz from plant physiology, and one of the questions was is there cholesterol in plant cell membranes, there are some sterols but for cholesterol I’ve guessed no. And I was wrong by assistant of the professor, but again another ass. Prof. sad to me that there are no ch. in the membranes, bottom line was as I remember you can find cholesterol in some plants but not in the membrane.
 
Vitamin B12 is essential and a vegan or vegetarian cannot get adequate amounts of this without supplimentation.

The part I'm not sure about is whether or not suppliments of this can be made w/o using animal products. I think it's found only in meat...
 
Originally posted by eagleone
That’s interesting, about 8 months ago, we had something like a quiz from plant physiology, and one of the questions was is there cholesterol in plant cell membranes, there are some sterols but for cholesterol I’ve guessed no. And I was wrong by assistant of the professor, but again another ass. Prof. sad to me that there are no ch. in the membranes, bottom line was as I remember you can find cholesterol in some plants but not in the membrane.
The plant equivalent of cholesterol is ergosterol. Its structure is slightly different, I am not sure if we can use it.. wait, what am I saying? That was yeasts.. never mind!

*starts googling*
 
Plants don't have cholesterol (no ergosterol either) but contain the equivalent sterols and stanols. Maybe we can incorporate those into our membranes without loss of function, I am not sure.
 
Cholesterol in a Vegetarian Diet
Blood Cholesterol and Dietary Cholesterol
The word 'cholesterol' can refer to either 'blood-cholesterol' (the sort the body manufactures in the liver), or 'dietary-cholesterol' (the sort we ingest from food). Dietary cholesterol is obtained exclusively from animal sources (eg. meat, egg yolks, dairy etc) and is absent in plants.

High Blood Cholesterol Related to Heart Disease
Whether vegetarian or meat-eater, a person's blood-cholesterol levels are closely related to the risk of heart disease. The lower the cholesterol level the less chance of heart attack or stroke.

Saturated Fat Ups Blood Cholesterol in Vegetarians & Meat Eaters
Nutritionists and dietitians used to think that a person's intake of dietary-cholesterol affected blood-cholesterol levels, but now things are less clear. It appears that saturated fat-intake rather than dietary-cholesterol-intake is more closely related to raised blood-cholesterol levels. In other words, the higher your intake of saturated fat, the higher your blood-cholesterol levels.

Saturated Fat in Vegan Diet
As a vegan diet contains neither meat nor dairy fats, it is typically lower in saturated fat, which perhaps explains the low levels of coronary heart disease in vegans.

Saturated Fat in Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian Diet
The ovo-lacto vegetarian diet is typically higher in saturated fat than vegan diets but much lower than meat-diets. And ovo-lacto vegetarians too have greatly reduced levels of heart disease. Nonetheless, ovo-lacto vegetarians need to beware their intake of dairy products as well as their consumption of margarine and other processed food that may be high in hydrogenated fats (Trans-Fats) which are saturated.

Heart Disease and Ovo-Lacto Vegetarians - Bottom Line
A heart-healthy ovo-lacto vegetarian diet should contain a maximum of 30 percent calories in the form of fat, of which no more than one third (10 percent of total fat) should be saturated

http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/cholesterol-vegetarian-diet.htm

Nautica
 
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Well, total cholesterol is not an indicator of the state of health of a person. Rather it is the ratio between LDL and HDL, into which cholesterol is incorporated. HDL protects against cardiovascular disease, while LDL accelerates it.

Cholesterol is in fact an essential nutrient in the formation of cell membranes, some hormones, and Vitamin D. So you wouldn't want to go completely without.

For a detailed explanation of the different dietary fats and their pros/cons go to the Harvard School of Public Health: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html

"Eat a low-fat, low-cholesterol diet." Most of us have heard this simple recommendation so often over the past two decades that we can recite it in our sleep. Touted as a way to lose weight and prevent cancer and heart disease, it's no wonder much of the nation--and food producers--hopped on board.

Unfortunately, this simple message now seems largely out of date. Detailed research--particularly that done at Harvard--shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, has no real link with disease. Rather, what really matters is the type of fat in the diet. There are bad fats that increase the risk for certain diseases and good fats that lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.
 
Cholesterol can be manufactuered by the body, yes?

Reminds me of a mini-quizz question i did, but they never give out answers because they have reused the same questions for the past 5 years.
 
No, I don't think the body can 'manufacture' cholesterol. In fact what happens is that cholesterol is taken up in the bowel and is transported through the blood in complexes called chylomicrons. They reach the liver, which takes it out of the blood stream. Here is a temporary storage, the liver then can release it again.

That's my understanding.

Actually, maybe Acetyl CoA can be made into cholesterol? But where does the Acetyl CoA come from..
 
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I stand corrected: de novo synthesis of cholesterol IS possible.

http://www.biochem.emory.edu/classes/BAHS501/Notes_Taryn/Exam3_review.pdf

~50% results from de novo synthesis, apparently
 
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Originally posted by nautica
Saturated
Really, do you know the structure of cholesterol?

http://organic.chem.wisc.edu/343/overheads/cholesterol.gif

You tell me how a 'saturated fat' (very very wide term) is going to react into that..
 
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I stand corrected. What I should have said was that increased fat intake, increases cholesterol production.

Regulation of cholesterol synthesis by dietary fat and cholesterol

Cholesterol is an essential component of mammalian membranes and a precursor for bile acids, vitamin D and steroid hormones. Up to now, a lot of studies have been done to determine the effect of dietary factors on circulating cholesterol concentrations in humans, since elevated plasma total cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol have proved to be closely related to atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease (1). Dietary cholesterol and saturated fatty acids (SFAs) increase serum cholesterol concentrations, while polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) lower cholesterol concentrations. Monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs) decrease serum total and LDL cholesterol concentrations but have no effect on HDL cholesterol (2,3). However, how dietary fat and cholesterol affect cholesterol synthesis and whether this contributes to their effect on circulating cholesterol concentrations remains unresolved. The purpose of this paper is to review studies examining the effects of diets containing different amounts of fat and cholesterol on cholesterol synthesis. Also considered, is whether reductions or elevations in cholesterol synthesis is responsible for changes observed in cholesterol concentrations affected by diets. The de novo cholesterol synthesis pathway and several methods for cholesterol synthesis measurement in human will be discussed in this paper.

The inputs of whole-body cholesterol pool are mainly from diet and de novo synthesis.
Endogenous cholesterol synthesis accounts for two-thirds of the cholesterol input at the whole-body level, which is about 1 g of cholesterol each day (4). The primary site of de novo cholesterol synthesis is the liver, although extrahepatic tissues such as small intestine, adrenal cortex, ovaries and testes also synthesize cholesterol for various uses. Cholesterol synthesis requires acetyl CoA, ATP, the reduced form of nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH), and oxygen (4). HMG CoA reductase, catalyzing the NADPH-dependent reduction of HMG CoA to mevalonic acid, is the rate-limiting enzyme in this pathway. Squalene and lanosterol are both 30-carbon precursors of cholesterol, and the difference between these compounds is that squalene is a linear precursor of cholesterol and lanosterol is converted from squalene through oxidation and cyclization reactions.

Nautica
 
Dietary cholesterol and saturated fatty acids (SFAs) increase serum cholesterol concentrations, while polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) lower cholesterol concentrations.
Yes, so a possible reason why this occurs is that saturated fatty acids take up the space occupied by cholesterol in the fatty acid particles such as HDL and LDL. Cholesterol cannot be taken up and thus stays in the plasma.

(the reason why saturated and not unsaturated fats can do that, is that saturated fats don't have double bonds and are thus flexible straight molecules. Unsaturated fats contain double bonds and are thus more rigid and have a crooked conformation. So saturated fats should nicely fit into a micel, while for unsaturated fats this should be more difficult? Just my thought..)