Is America Losing the War on Drugs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the effectiveness and implications of the War on Drugs in the United States, exploring its socio-economic impact, political neglect, and historical context. Participants examine various aspects of drug prohibition, including its effects on crime rates, public health, and political discourse, while also considering alternative approaches to drug policy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the War on Drugs is failing, citing high incarceration rates for non-violent drug offenses and the ineffectiveness of current policies in reducing drug use.
  • Others propose that the economic incentives created by drug prohibition lead to increased drug trafficking and violence, suggesting that legalizing and regulating drugs could mitigate these issues.
  • One participant notes the historical context of drug use trends, questioning the assertion that the War on Drugs is losing based on past declines in hard drug use.
  • Several comments highlight the political ramifications of discussing drug policy, suggesting that politicians avoid the topic due to lack of public support or votes.
  • Some participants emphasize the moral implications of drug laws, questioning why certain behaviors are criminalized while others are not.
  • There are references to authoritative sources and statistics, with some participants challenging the validity of others' claims based on differing interpretations of data.
  • A few participants express skepticism about the relevance of the War on Drugs compared to other pressing issues, suggesting it is often overshadowed by topics like terrorism and the economy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reveals multiple competing views regarding the effectiveness and morality of the War on Drugs. There is no consensus on whether the current approach is justified or if alternative strategies should be pursued. Participants express differing opinions on the relevance of the issue in the political landscape.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various statistics and historical trends, but there is a lack of agreement on their interpretation and implications. The discussion also highlights the complexity of public perception and political strategy surrounding drug policy.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying drug policy, criminal justice, political science, and social issues related to drug use and regulation.

  • #61
russ_watters said:
my view is that the problem is drug crime.
I thought you implied earlier that your view was that drug use was immoral. Perhaps I misunderstood. To take the position that the problem is drug crime, then to oppose legalization would require an argument that legalization would increase drug crime, which I'm not sure is empirically supportable. (And, yes, of course, the argument only makes sense when restricted to drug related violence and theft, as the overall level of drug related crime would instantly go down if possession were no longer a crime.)
 
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  • #62
Hurkyl said:
You say this a lot, but what does it really mean? It's certainly nonobvious that this is a bad thing, nor that it's an indicator that the war on drugs is failing.

Generally the end result of trying to make a product more scarce through force is to drive up the price of that product, so that its not profitable. A decrease in price means that there is no trouble with supply, so it's ok to drop prices and allow demand to go up; and the purity increase shows that it's not artificially creating more product by diluting it.

And you make juxtapositions like this as if it meant something. Even if improving purity and decreasing price is shown to be a bad thing, you've made absolutely no effort to show that things would not have been worse had this seizure not taken place.

That's the point actually, you're going to have a lot of pissed off violent criminals; but this doesn't mean user supply will drop, because seizures are anticipated enough to have it make little impact, and the seizure rate is generally constant so it wouldn't really lead to more availability either.



It would be silly to expect 100% victory, but your criticisms of the war on drugs seem to be based primarily on the fact that 100% victory hasn't been accomplished. The war on drugs is successful if drug usage is less than if there was no war on drugs, which you admit is the case:
Less "drug use" is not the only measure of success. I believe I've stated that use would indeed go up, but addiction and ruined lives because of it would go down. The primary problem with drug use is the violence the illicit market creates, this is responsible for a majority of drug related deaths. The goal of a war on drugs should be to minimize the deaths related to drugs, and in that respect the wars punitive approach is a failure.
I base my ascertation of failure upon the following:
- No significant drops in use have been realized since the wars inception, despite massive funding increases.
- As previously mentioned, this is because supply has not been reduced despite increasingly strong efforts.
- Drug availability to minors has been increasing.
- The drug war has clearly failed to help otherwise law-abiding citizens with a problem, since prison destroys their lives even more.
- Even as use remains steady, the number of *non-violent*, *first-time* offenders incarcerated continues to increase, and their average sentence is higher than that of rapists and murderers.
Furthermore, you use selective sampling as if it's representative:



You are obviously trying to imply that this is your "typical" drug user.

However, you've given no reason to think that these people aren't simply the exceptional cases that are better able than to keep their habit from spilling over into other parts of their life... and that might not even be permament.

And you haven't even attempted to say that the druggies are as productive and successful as the others.
Actually, since overall drug use has been found, by government study, to have a constant rate across all socioeconomic brackets, this is pretty much true. And furthermore, recreational occaisonal use has even less of an impact, and these users make up such a substantial majority of all users, that they can be considered typical.

(a) It is already known that social use and addiction are not mutually exclusive, at least with alcohol.
(b) Since one can become addicted to some drugs from a single use, moderation won't prevent addiction.

(a) The decision to misuse alcohol, i.e. alone, in class, because of depression or wanting to escape, must inherently preceed addiction... going straight from social use to addiction without taking the step of misuse does not happen, and does not happen with any other substance.

(b) Psychologically yes, physically no. Given that, this does not speak to why alcohol is acceptable and drug users should be treated as criminals instead of a person with a health problem.

Furthermore, smoked nicotine is more physically addictive than any illicit drug (laboratory quantitive measurements, its legal status for humans just makes things worse), and more psychologically addicting than most. On top of that, smoked nicotine is the MOST DEADLY DRUG. You are more likely to die from addiction to smoking from causes directly related to it, then from causes directly related to addiction to any other drug. Why should this be ok and everything else should mean jail time? If you would outlaw nicotine to, do you think people addicted to the most addictive drug would simply stop when it was now available on the street? Would people selling it non-violently deserve more jail time than murderers and airplane hijackers? Would the drop in use justify the increase in violence and the people whose addiction was now unaffordable and virtually impossible to get effective help for?

My superordinate criticism is that using a punitive approach to drive down use rather than a treatment and effective preventive education (prevention programs today are largely NOT effective) is not the most ethical or effective way of reducing the burden on society and saving the most lives; the fact that such a punitive approach cannot succeed further is secondary.
 

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