Is America's War on Terror Worth the Cost?

[stoned]

Archon : American government had more connections with Al-Qaida than Saddam Hussein ever could have. And when Saddam H. stand trail don't be fooled by his supposedly true admission of ties to Al-Qaida, because all information must pass thru our " propaganda ministry " first.

 

[SOS2008]

In only a short time since my last post in this thread my points have been proven. There are still Americans who believe terrorism was/is connected to Saddam/Iraq, and that there were WMD. They still believe the cost of the war in Iraq is worth it, but when they discuss this, the topic flip-flops from terrorism (i.e., 9-11, etc.) to ruthless dictatorship--no longer about the security of Americans, but freeing the Iraqi people. I wonder if the body count, tax dollars being spent, etc., are really sinking in--please read the OP over and over until it does.

So where is this reasoning (or lack of reasoning) coming from? Yes, please, let's see some evidence for all this nonsense. But we all know such evidence can't be produced because it's not there. So why do people continue to cling to this thinking? Pro-Bush Pride? Somewhat, but mostly ignorance and susceptibility to propaganda. This is far more frightening to me than terrorist attacks, because empires decline from within.

 

[pattylou]

I think it's pride.

I also think as much as Bush's promotion of polarisation shoves me further left, it also pulls conservatives (some of them) further right. I think some of them who would have assessed more objectively, now feel that they'll "stand by their man" come hell or high water.

I agree, it's depressing and more scary than terrorism. (Actually, terrorism itself doesn't really scare me much - our *response* to terrorism does. I had a few sleepless nights after 9/11, but nothing like what this administration has done to my mental state!)

The whole reaction says something about the human condition that doesn't bode well. Fortunately, there's lots of goodness in the human condition, too. Among all of us! If we can back in touch with our commonalities maybe we can find a reasonable path through the blunders that Bush has committed.

 

[Art]

It seems at least some people in Washington are facing up to the fact that winning in Iraq is going to take a lot more time, money and lives than the Bush administration is prepared to admit.

US must spend ‘billions’, retool Iraq strategy to win

WASHINGTON: Winning the war in Iraq will require at least a decade of US military involvement, spending hundreds of billions of dollars, and adopting a new strategy that would see more US troops killed, a top military analyst in Washington has said.
Andrew Krepinevich, director of the Centre for Strategic Assessments, said the US military has little chance of winning the counter-insurgency war in Iraq unless it focuses on protecting Iraqi civilians, instead of killing guerrillas.
The strategy, outlined in an essay in the journal Foreign Affairs, would also quash the Bush administration proposals to cut the number of US troops in Iraq to 60,000 in a year.
Krepinevich said his plan, which he has dubbed the “oil spot strategy,” gives the US its best chance to prevail in Iraq.
Current US operations, based on the same military offensive tactics that failed in Vietnam, are making “little progress” in defeating some 20,000 Iraqi rebels and their few hundred foreign allies.

Full text at http://www.bahraintribune.com/ArticleDetail.asp?CategoryId=2&ArticleId=78732

 

[outsider]

I think it's pride.

I also think as much as Bush's promotion of polarisation shoves me further left, it also pulls conservatives (some of them) further right. I think some of them who would have assessed more objectively, now feel that they'll "stand by their man" come hell or high water.

I agree, it's depressing and more scary than terrorism. (Actually, terrorism itself doesn't really scare me much - our *response* to terrorism does. I had a few sleepless nights after 9/11, but nothing like what this administration has done to my mental state!)

The whole reaction says something about the human condition that doesn't bode well. Fortunately, there's lots of goodness in the human condition, too. Among all of us! If we can back in touch with our commonalities maybe we can find a reasonable path through the blunders that Bush has committed.

To add to this, those who would rather stand by their man than to admit that they are wrong are often those who tend to panic, get defensive and make rash decisions. The are also those who are most fearful, insecure and are unaware of their options due to undereducation, miseducation or some other cultural influence.

As it is also scary to wander away from the flock and be a contrarian in a state where a "management by fear" and strong arm influence exists (anywhere churches rule aka bible belt/ midwest/ I'm not picking on anyone specifically just trying to make a point), it is easier to just do what everyone else is doing because if I'm wrong, we're wrong... and so no one will feel like they need to bare all the guilt.

In my experiences talking to people, I find that some people, especially well educated people, tend to keep their vote a secret, even from their friends and family. While, on the flipside, those who are less educated will seek confirmation from those around them. This is the power of word-of-mouth advertising.

As an action to add to the goodness of the human condition point, those who are educated enough should not just stay within our communities of other smartasses because you are not "converting" votes. To you, you are making the smartest decision for yourself, while due to the belief that everyone is free to make their own decision, you let each person make their own undereducated choice, which is the same undereducated choice that all their brothers, sisters, step-brothers, aunts, uncles... etc are making.

These are the same people who would rather be popular than anything else (aka politically correct). So help them help themselves.

 

[Art]

Seems Operation Iraqi Freedom is being scaled back to Operation a little bit of freedom.

U.S. scales down goals in Iraq

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The administration of President George W. Bush is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

Citing unnamed officials in Washington and Baghdad, the newspaper said Washington no longer expected to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting oil industry or a society, in which the majority of people are free from serious security or economic challenges.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=8/15/2005&Cat=4&Num=006 It appears the main concern of Bush and co. these days is no longer bringing democracy and the American dream to the middle east but how to get out of the nightmare mess they've created without losing too much face.

 

[Art]

It appears even Fox News is losing faith;

Someone Tell the President the War Is Over

By FRANK RICH
Published: August 14, 2005
LIKE the Japanese soldier marooned on an island for years after V-J Day, President Bush may be the last person in the country to learn that for Americans, if not Iraqis, the war in Iraq is over. "We will stay the course," he insistently tells us from his Texas ranch. What do you mean we, white man?

The president's cable cadre is in disarray as well. At Fox News Bill O'Reilly is trashing Donald Rumsfeld for his incompetence, and Ann Coulter is chiding Mr. O'Reilly for being a defeatist. In an emblematic gesture akin to waving a white flag, Robert Novak walked off a CNN set and possibly out of a job rather than answer questions about his role in smearing the man who helped expose the administration's prewar inflation of Saddam W.M.D.'s. (On this sinking ship, it's hard to know which rat to root for.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/opinion/14rich.html

 

[Art]

Change might not be good for Iraqi women
By Marie Szaniszlo
Sunday, August 14, 2005 - Updated: 10:14 AM EST

In a chilling irony, women may actually have fewer rights under Iraq's new, ``democratic'' constitution than they did under Saddam Hussein.

``The United States government has poured millions of dollars into democracy training for Iraqi women, and more than 1,800 Americans have died for Iraqi freedom. But it may turn out to be for Iraqi male freedom,'' said Katheryn Coughlin, program administrator for the American Islamic Congress, a nonprofit doing democracy training in Iraq.

Things just keep getting better. http://news.bostonherald.com/international/view.bg?articleid=97940