Is an Electron Both a Wave and a Particle Simultaneously?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Deepak K Kapur
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Electron Properties
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of electrons, specifically whether they exhibit wave and particle properties simultaneously or at different times. Participants explore concepts from quantum theory, interpretations of electron behavior, and the implications of these interpretations in various contexts, including theoretical and practical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons display both wave and particle-like properties, questioning whether these properties manifest simultaneously or at different times.
  • One viewpoint suggests that electrons are neither classical particles nor classical fields, but rather quantum objects, challenging the notion of wave-particle duality as outdated.
  • Another participant emphasizes that treating electrons as particles or waves can be practically adequate in certain contexts, particularly in simulations and applications in particle accelerators.
  • Some argue that the interpretation of electrons as waves or particles depends on the experimental context, with references to specific experiments like the Afshar experiment that suggest simultaneous interpretations.
  • There is a mention of the Standard Model, describing electrons as Dirac fermions with specific properties, but this does not resolve the broader debate on their wave-particle nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of electrons, with no consensus reached on whether they can be considered both a wave and a particle simultaneously or under what conditions this might apply.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight the ambiguity in terminology and the limitations of classical analogies when describing quantum phenomena. The conversation reflects varying interpretations based on different experimental contexts and theoretical frameworks.

Deepak K Kapur
Messages
164
Reaction score
5
An electron displays both wave and particle like properties.

Does it exhibit these at the same time or at different times?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
At the same time: all the time
 
An electron is neither a classical particle nor a classical field but described entirely right only by modern quantum theory, which implies that there is no such thing as "wave-particle duality" as in old quantum theory (which was obsolete with the discovery of modern quantum theory in 1925/26).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba, QuantumQuest and Delta2
vanhees71 said:
An electron is neither a classical particle nor a classical field but described entirely right only by modern quantum theory, which implies that there is no such thing as "wave-particle duality" as in old quantum theory (which was obsolete with the discovery of modern quantum theory in 1925/26).

Then what is it? Just probability!
 
Deepak K Kapur said:
Then what is it?
It is neither a wave nor a particle. It is a quantum object.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
vanhees71 said:
An electron is neither a classical particle nor a classical field but described entirely right only by modern quantum theory, which implies that there is no such thing as "wave-particle duality" as in old quantum theory (which was obsolete with the discovery of modern quantum theory in 1925/26).

Nugatory said:
It is neither a wave nor a particle. It is a quantum object.

Oh come on Vanhees and Nugatory please tell us something more about what the modern quantum field theory says about electron!
 
If you could ask an electron what it is, I bet it would answer like Popeye the Sailor:

IAmWhatIAm.jpg
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Nugatory and Delta2
The heavies (i.e. the theoretical physicists like vanH and Nu) are absolutely right. But for many down-to-earth 'practical' physics, treating the buggers as particles or treating them as waves can be quite adequate. If you are describing something that forces you to switch between these interpretations you are probably in trouble. The electrons themselves certainly don't change their behaviour because you use the one or the other paradigm to describe their behaviour.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Deepak K Kapur said:
An electron displays both wave and particle like properties.

Does it exhibit these at the same time or at different times?

I'll add to the fun. In my field, we treat them like classical particles. And it works!

Look at particle-simulation codes such as PARMELA, and other PIC codes. They all threat electrons as classical particles to model the electron beam going through various components in a particle accelerator.

Your question is ambiguous because you did not put ANY context to it. If you ask someone if Special Relativity is valid in building a house, you'll get laughed at. There are cases where it is easier to treat something in some formulation, while in others, it may be more accurate to treat it in another formulation.

I also strongly suggest you read some of the FAQs, especially on the similar question regarding photons, and whether they are waves or particles. The answer is applicable to this one. Notice the fact that even calling it a "wave" or a "particle" is incorrect or inaccurate at best. YOU have already a classical imprint in your head of what a "particle" is and what a "wave" is. Yet, these are not accurate description of quantum particles, simply because they are not physical waves (meaning they are not really "waves") and they really do not have well-defined boundary in space like a ping-pong ball (meaning they are not really "particles").

So even the insistence that they can be one or the other, or combination of both is not accurate either!

Zz.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest
  • #10
Delta² said:
Oh come on Vanhees and Nugatory please tell us something more about what the modern quantum field theory says about electron!
For electrons (and other massive particles, as opposed to photons) you don't need QFT. Ordinary "first-quantization" non-relativistic QM, the stuff you'll learn in a college-level intro to QM, is a good enough starting point.

Some interactions with an electron demonstrate interference and diffraction, which we generally consider to be wave-like behavior; other interactions are consistent with the electron being at a particular place at a particular time, which we generally consider to be particle-like behavior. As ZapperZ has pointed out, in many problems you can just choose one or the other model and stick with it and get altogether satisfactory results.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest and BvU
  • #11
Deepak K Kapur said:
An electron displays both wave and particle like properties.

Does it exhibit these at the same time or at different times?

Instantaneously, of course. :biggrin:
 
  • #12
DrChinese said:
Instantaneously, of course. :biggrin:

This word 'instantaneous' has confused many a generation, imo.
 
  • #13
I always thought the standard answer is that depending on the experiment you can interpret the electron as particle and in others as wave.

Although there is the controversial experiment by Afshar which interprets as both at the same time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afshar_experiment
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
  • #14
Delta² said:
Oh come on Vanhees and Nugatory please tell us something more about what the modern quantum field theory says about electron!
An electron and its antiparticle, the positron, are described as a Dirac fermion with the mass of ~511 keV. It carries electric and weak-isospin charge but no color. That describes completely what we know about the electron within the Standard Model of elementary particles.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba

Similar threads

  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
9K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K