Is Bitcoin a Legitimate Currency or a Potential Scam?

[nsaspook]

Memo to MtGox - keep searching down the back of the sofa... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26677291

It might be part of these bitcoins.
http://www.coindesk.com/gox-money-moving-through-block-chain/

Large amounts of bitcoins previously handled by Mt Gox, which have lain dormant for years, have started moving on the block chain.

Was it really 'lost'?

 

[Adderall]

Of course you COULD argue that anyone who speculates in cabbage patch dolls or bitcoins IS "stupid or not all there mentally"

I know you were joking but I kind of non-ironically agree with russ_watters about money and stupid people. That literally is what online poker is - taking money from stupid people. Even at low stakes, it just feels weird.

I 100% agree these bets are risky and not guaranteed for any outcome. I guess I feel that people can't be trusted to be safe or to effectively manage their own bankrolls. The US gov't doesn't trust people in every day life, considering seat belt & speed limit laws. I would be comfortable letting people blow their wad on inane nonsense like cabbage patch dolls if they at least had to undergo some sort of psych evaluation first.

 

[TylerH]

I know you were joking but I kind of non-ironically agree with russ_watters about money and stupid people. That literally is what online poker is - taking money from stupid people. Even at low stakes, it just feels weird.

I 100% agree these bets are risky and not guaranteed for any outcome. I guess I feel that people can't be trusted to be safe or to effectively manage their own bankrolls. The US gov't doesn't trust people in every day life, considering seat belt & speed limit laws. I would be comfortable letting people blow their wad on inane nonsense like cabbage patch dolls if they at least had to undergo some sort of psych evaluation first.

What happened to self ownership? Is it not vain to assume that your view that investment in something is insane must be the correct view? By what objective reasoning could you justify subjecting everyone of the opposing view to some arbitrary standard to act on their view?

 

[Adderall]

What happened to self ownership? Is it not vain to assume that your view that investment in something is insane must be the correct view? By what objective reasoning could you justify subjecting everyone of the opposing view to some arbitrary standard to act on their view?

You misread my post. I wrote inane, as in silly and stupid. Also, I said it would be nice if people were periodically evaluated to make sure they are in control of their own decisions. I understand libertarians won't think the seat belt law is useful precedent, but it is an example of the US gov't deciding on some "arbitrary" (not arbitrary) standard limiting what we can do with our own property.

Yes, this is how the real world works. No one is forced to make any of the bets we are talking about. I think your moral outraged is misplaced.

Yes thank you, I have lived in the real world before. I'm not outraged. I'm not even advocating banning gambling. I'm merely pointing out that modern psychology has shown repeatedly that people are easily manipulated and influenced. I could go into detail if you think psychology is pertinent to this discussion. And I think it must be; how can you say no one is forced to make bets when it can't be demonstrated what is driving their decision making?

 

[nsaspook]

Viewing bitcoin as simply gambling is good for bitcoin.

This is why I find the some of the “counter-economics” bitcoin boosters using the government legal systems to get their money back ironic if indeed they want independence from the costs of consumer protection. Surely they must see the governments position on gambling. If you lose for any non-(overtly)criminal reason we don't care , if you win for any reason we just want a share and don't really care about how you got the money. As long as bitcoin is seem by the government mainly as a gamblers fools game with the electronic equivalent of S&H stamps Bitcoin can live in it's little corner without much regulation but if it starts to actually become widespread people will expect consumer protection from some authority that can exercise force on perceived 'wrong doers'.
http://www.coindesk.com/life-under-bitcoin-regulation-worse-than-investors-think/

Look at PayPals state requirements. https://www.paypal-media.com/state_licenses.cfm

 

[russ_watters]

What happened to self ownership? Is it not vain to assume that your view that investment in something is insane must be the correct view?

Yes, but what if you had made a ton of money off of Beanie Babies? How would you feel about it today? I was too young at the time to have done it, but I remember talking to a friend's mom and being dumbfounded by her belief in what she was doing. It made an impression on me.

 

[Adderall]

It seems the IRS views bitcoin as gambling also.

 

[nsaspook]

It seems the IRS views bitcoin as gambling also.

The Taxman cometh but only takes cash not bitcoin for the price of freedom.


This means in case of an audit and you own bitcoin you must disclose your transactions and maybe the keys to those transactions (as digital receipts) to prove ownership so they can verify amounts using the Bitcoin networked blockchain database.

 

[nsaspook]

The IRS action also means bitcoins have lost 'Fungibility'. One bitcoin is not the same as all bitcoins because the tax consequences of using one over the other now involves a cost basis calculation using the cash value at both the buy and sell transactions unlike a 'fungible' stack of $20 bills from 1980 you hid in the basement used to buy a new car today.

The MtGox Bitcoin top 500 trading patterns.

http://bitcoin.stamen.com/

 

[nsaspook]

Interesting defense.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...onetary-instrument-moves-to-drop-all-charges/

“Count Four, which charges Mr. Ulbricht with participating in a money laundering conspiracy…must be dismissed because the allegation lacks an essential element: that the ‘financial transactions’ alleged involved ‘monetary instruments,’” the motion reads. “Bitcoins, the exclusive means of payment on Silk Road, do not qualify as ‘monetary instruments,’ and therefore cannot serve as the basis for a money laundering violation.”