Is Boundedness the Key to Proving Uniqueness in Initial Value Problems?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Existence and Uniqueness theorems for ordinary differential equations (ODEs), specifically focusing on the role of boundedness in proving uniqueness for initial value problems (IVPs). Participants explore the conditions under which the function involved in the IVP must be Lipschitz or locally Lipschitz, and the implications of these conditions on the domain of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Marin, expresses confusion regarding the necessity of boundedness for proving uniqueness in the context of the IVP and questions how to define the domain of the function f.
  • Another participant suggests that boundedness is not explicitly required by the existence and uniqueness theorem, emphasizing that f only needs to be continuous in t and locally Lipschitz in x.
  • There is a discussion about the specific neighborhoods around points of interest, particularly concerning the function f and its behavior near problematic points such as x=1.
  • Questions arise about how to determine appropriate neighborhoods and intervals for the solution, especially when the function may blow up or become undefined.
  • One participant notes that the existence and uniqueness theorem guarantees a unique solution in a neighborhood of the initial point, but the size of this neighborhood is not determined by the theorem itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the necessity of boundedness for the function f in proving uniqueness. While some argue that boundedness is essential, others contend that continuity and local Lipschitz conditions suffice. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the implications of these conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in defining the domain of f and the challenges in determining neighborhoods where the function behaves well. There is also uncertainty about how to proceed when explicit solutions cannot be found.

Marin
Messages
192
Reaction score
0
Hi all!

I'm having some trouble with the Existence and Uniqueness (E&U) thms. for ODEs.

Consider the IVP:

x'(t)=f(t,x(t)), x(\xi)=\eta

In order to prove Existence, we need f to be Lipschitz or at least locally Lipschitz. For the Uniqueness we use the Banach's fixed point thm. for the operator:

(Tx)(t):=\eta+\int_{\xi}^t f(s,x(s))ds which is equavalent to the initial ODE.


The problem lies in proving the operator T has only one fixed point: To do this, we need f to be bounded on a certain domain (which also corresponds to the Lipschitz condition), so we actually need the domain of f.

But defining the domain of f is in special cases what causes the problem.


Consider the IVP:

x'=\frac{t}{1-x}, f(0)=2

From the ODE we obtain the domain of f:

f: R x R\{1} -> R
(t,x) -> f(t,x)

So f does not appear to be bounded at all ?! We could conclude that f is continuously differentiable in x, so f is also locally Lipschitz continuous and therefore must be bounded by some const. at least in some interval of R, but we cannot dfind neither this interval, nor the constant from the initial data. (can we?)

So the boundness is what we seek but cannot find.


I hope someone to bring more light into this topic for me :)


Regards,

Marin
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You mean Lipschitz in the variable x. f only has to be continuous in t.

But why are you looking for "boundedness"? There is nothing in the "existence and uniqueness" theorem that says anything about f being bounded- except, of course, locally, since f must be continuous in both variables. And t/(1- x) certainly is bounded in some neighborhood of (0, 2).
 
But why are you looking for "boundedness"? There is nothing in the "existence and uniqueness" theorem that says anything about f being bounded- except, of course, locally, since f must be continuous in both variables. And t/(1- x) certainly is bounded in some neighborhood of (0, 2).

*which neighbourhood do you mean - this one of x or of t ?

So you cut out the interval containing the point(s) that make(s) problems (i.e. x=1) and solve for the rest of R (i.e. R\(0,2)?

But the solution to the problem x(t)=1+\sqrt{1-t^2} is defined only for (-1,1), for x could not be 1. And (-1,1) does not fully lie in the neighbourhood of (0,2), since they intersect?

I'd assume we could chose a smaller interval to change the considered neighbourhood. But how do we see this from the equations?!

And how to proceed here since this interval has to be open and extended up to t= 1, where f blows up?!

What do we do if we cannot expicitly solve?(sorry, it's lots of questions I posted, but it's still kind of vague to me)
 
The existence and uniqueness theorem is a local theorem. It guarantees you a unique solution in a neighbourhood of the initial point, (0,2). And as you have shown, the solution exists and is unique in a neighbourhood of t=0 . . . in fact, it exists in (-1,1) . . . but that's something you deduce from the solution itself, the theorem cannot determine how big the neighbourhood in which the unique solution it guarantees is.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K