Is Calcite a parallel to the Stern-Gerlach experiment?

  • #36
PeterDonis said:
I've already done that multiple times in this thread.No, it doesn't. It entangles the spin degree of freedom with the linear momentum degree of freedom. It doesn't change the amplitudes of the spin components at all. I've already said this multiple times in this thread.
If the state involves from an unentangled to an entangled state, the state is changing. How else would you be able to use the SG magnet as a preparation apparatus for spin-##z## eigenstates? Of course, if you trace out the spatial/momentum information you are right (for the usual idealized approximation). But that's not what makes the SGE inteteresting!
 
  • Skeptical
Likes weirdoguy
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #37
vanhees71 said:
If the state involves from an unentangled to an entangled state, the state is changing.
The overall state changes. The amplitudes of the spin components do not change. The latter is what I have been saying. Please read carefully; I am getting a little tired of people "refuting" claims in this thread that I have not made.
 
  • Like
Likes weirdoguy and Lord Jestocost
  • #38
Sometimes it's not only the fault of the reader, if one's misunderstood!
 
  • Sad
Likes weirdoguy
  • #39
vanhees71 said:
Sometimes it's not only the fault of the reader, if one's misunderstood!
I don't know how to say that the amplitudes of the spin components don't change, which is what I said in multiple posts in this thread, any clearer. If you misunderstood that, I have no idea how to fix that.
 
  • Like
Likes Motore
  • #40
You are right (with pretty high accuracy). What I meant is that the state changes if it's not a spin-##z## eigenstate such that you can measure and/or prepare spin-##z## eigenstates. The spin as a whole moves, i.e., it precesses around the direction of the magnetic field, which is the key for understanding the SGE in terms of QT, which is surprisingly never discussed in the textbook literature, where it is discussed qualitatively in a semiclassical way. I'll write a short note on it over the weekend.
 
  • #41
vanhees71 said:
You are right (with pretty high accuracy).
Yes, we've already agreed on that earlier in the thread.

vanhees71 said:
What I meant is that the state changes if it's not a spin-##z## eigenstate such that you can measure and/or prepare spin-##z## eigenstates.
Yes, if you have a detector after the SG device or you filter one of the beams out. But that involves something else in addition to the SG device, and the measurement/preparation requires that something else. Without that something else, with just the SG device, which is what the OP of the thread was originally asking about, these "state changes" do not occur. We've already discussed that earlier in the thread too.

vanhees71 said:
The spin as a whole moves, i.e., it precesses around the direction of the magnetic field, which is the key for understanding the SGE in terms of QT, which is surprisingly never discussed in the textbook literature, where it is discussed qualitatively in a semiclassical way. I'll write a short note on it over the weekend.
We discussed this earlier in the thread too. Yes, these complications are present and a complete, rigorous analysis would include them. I think that's beyond the scope of what the OP was originally asking about, but the effects you describe are real, yes.
 
  • #42
Yes, and I don't understand, why you claim it's wrong! These are not complications but essential to understand the effect! As I said, I'll prepare a short writeup as soon as possible.
 
  • Skeptical
Likes Motore
  • #43
vanhees71 said:
Yes, and I don't understand, why you claim it's wrong!
I didn't say the complications were wrong. I said they are not part of what the OP of the thread was originally asking about. You don't need to do a complete, rigorous analysis of the entire effect in order to address the OP's question: just knowing that the SG device entangles the spin and linear momentum degrees of freedom is enough.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #44
vanhees71 said:
As I said, I'll prepare a short writeup as soon as possible.
This is fine. In fact it might make a good Insights article.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71

Similar threads

Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
624
Replies
24
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
903
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
15
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
17
Views
1K
Back
Top