The discussion revolves around the accuracy of a DNA animation that claims to depict real-time processes in molecular biology, specifically focusing on gene transcription and protein translation. Participants explore the implications of molecular scale and motion, as well as the potential discrepancies between animation and actual biological processes.
Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between magnification and molecular speed, and multiple competing views remain regarding the accuracy of the animation's representation of real-time processes.
Some claims depend on specific definitions of magnification and speed, and there are unresolved assumptions about the nature of molecular motion and the accuracy of the animation.
Why's that?Hornbein said:They say the animation is real time but wouldn't the real thing be much quicker?
Because molecules are minuscule. Things happen much faster way down there.Drakkith said:Why's that?
Without a clear indication of how fast things are happening in the video I can't say anything either way. The speed looked plausible to my mostly untrained eye but that doesn't mean much.Hornbein said:Because molecules are minuscule. Things happen much faster way down there.
At one million times magnification that's equivalent to 20 years for a gene transcription. I guess that's the cellular equivalent of building a cathedral. Depending so heavily on random thermal motion slows things down. Two years for protein translation, no wonder they need so many copies of everything in order to get anything done.Frabjous said:If I look at this, it says that transcription takes about 10min/gene and that protein translation takes around 1min/protein (for mammalian cell lines)
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(16)30208-2.pdf
What does magnification have to do with the time it takes for transcription?Hornbein said:At one million times magnification that's equivalent to 20 years for a gene transcription.
It is a measure of how small the things in question actually are. One million times smaller than what we see on the screen. Things are a million times closer together and weigh a quintillion times less than things of the size we see on the screen. So I'd expect construction to go a million times faster. If it were purposeful I suppose it would. So depending so heavily on random thermal motion slows things down a million times. That's the rough idea.Drakkith said:What does magnification have to do with the time it takes for transcription?
That's not how it works. Magnification has nothing to do with how fast something takes.Hornbein said:It is a measure of how small the things in question actually are. One million times smaller than what we see on the screen. Things are a million times closer together and weigh a quintillion times less than things of the size we see on the screen. So I'd expect construction to go a million times faster.
Oh come on. If two things are a million times closer together, they can be assembled much more quickly. I'm not going to respond to this bald assertion again.Drakkith said:That's not how it works. Magnification has nothing to do with how fast something takes.
What? Magnification is an optical effect, not a physical one. If I zoom in on some ants with my camera they don't suddenly slow down because they are bigger.Hornbein said:Oh come on. If two things are a million times closer together, they can be assembled much more quickly. I'm not going to respond to this bald assertion again.
Hornbein said:
Nicely done. Supercomputer?
They say the animation is real time but wouldn't the real thing be much quicker?
Yep, Brownian motion all right. Colors added just to help distinguish what's what.pinball1970 said:I liked the video, I have no idea how accurate it is in terms of speed.
Gene transcription looks pretty quick, see the molecules whizzing past in the cytoplasm?
I was wondering why everything was vibrating like that then remembered Brownian motion, I suppose that is it?
I assume all the colours are added.
I loved the sounds, who noticed the Bee sound during epigenetic tagging!
Separation is not magnification - length is the relevant unit.Hornbein said:If two things are a million times closer together