Is Einstein's explanation of gravity just a geometrical replacement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of gravity as described by Einstein's general relativity, particularly whether the geometrical explanation of gravity serves as a true replacement for Newtonian gravity. Participants explore the implications of mass curving spacetime and the philosophical questions surrounding the understanding of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how mass, such as that of the sun, causes spacetime to curve, expressing confusion about the geometrical explanation as a replacement for gravity.
  • Another participant states that while Einstein's equations allow for predictions about the movement of bodies in curved spacetime, the underlying reasons for the curvature remain unknown, suggesting a philosophical dimension to the inquiry.
  • A different participant notes that general relativity provides precise predictions but does not explain why spacetime is curved by stress-energy, only that it is.
  • One participant discusses the relationship between mass and acceleration in Newtonian gravity, suggesting that mass generates an acceleration field, which could be seen as a form of geometry.
  • Another participant introduces Newton-Cartan gravity as a geometrized version of Newtonian gravity, indicating a formalization of the concepts discussed.
  • A participant raises a question about the nature of attraction in Einstein's theory, suggesting that mass attracts space and vice versa, but not mass attracting mass in the traditional sense.
  • Another participant cautions against applying Newtonian concepts to Einstein's framework, emphasizing that gravity in Einstein's theory is fundamentally about the curvature of spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and confusion regarding the geometrical interpretation of gravity, with no consensus on the nature of attraction or the reasons behind spacetime curvature. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of current understanding regarding the fundamental reasons for spacetime curvature and the philosophical implications of these concepts. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential for future scientific advancements to provide deeper insights.

menniandscience
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according to einstein the mass go straight in the curved space because the sun makes the space curved and so the Earth circle the sun. but i don't understand why this "geometrical" explanation is a replacement for the gravity. how does the mass (of the sun for example) makes the space curved?
thanks!
 
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Nobody knows. Einstein produced an equation we can use to calculate the curvature of spacetime if we know the distribution of mass-energy. Using that equation, we can calculate how bodies like the planets will move around a larger body like the sun. But as to why that equation works, nobody knows. Right now it's a question for philosophical speculation, and perhaps for some more advanced science of the distant future.
 
We don't yet have an explanation, as Andrew says. We can make very precise predictions using general relativity and test them, and the theory gives good predictions. But it doesn't say why spacetime (not just space!) is curved by stress-energy, only that it is.

On a slightly philosophical note, this is true of all scientific theories on some level. For example, Newton's theory of gravity simply says that masses exert a force on one another, but it doesn't say how they do it.
 
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meni ohana said:
how does the mass (of the sun for example) makes the space curved?
I am not sure if you are asking "how" or "why". How mass (stress energy) curves space is described by the Einstein field equation. But why that equation rather than some other one is not.
 
meni ohana said:
but i don't understand why this "geometrical" explanation is a replacement for the gravity.

Newton's gravitation law ##F=G\frac{mM}{r^2}## ,dividing by m, ##\frac{F}{m}=G\frac{M}{r^2}=a##.

any m around M receive the same acceleration a. Thus M generate acceleration field around itself.

As deriving Maxwell's equation from Coulomb's law in electromagnetism, this relation is expressed as ## div\ a=4\pi G\rho ## where ##\rho## is mass density.

So in non relativistic mechanics already mass (density) generates ## div\ a## which is a kind of geometry.
 
@sweet springs You may want to look into Newton Cartan gravity. It is a geometrized version of Newtonian gravity along the lines of what you mention, but correctly formalized.
 
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Thanks for information. I will try.
 
It begs the very similar question: if space-time is curved as in the quotes, does that mean that - mass attracts space , and space attracts mass, but mass does not attract mass as such ?
 
synch said:
does that mean that - mass attracts space , and space attracts mass, but mass does not attract mass as such ?
It seems you are unconsciously using concepts of Newtonian theory into Einstein's theory.

Note that in Einstein's theory, it doesn't make sense to talk about attraction in the way you seem to be thinking of. Gravity is, in Einstein's theory, the curvature in the underlying space-time which is the framework for the mathematical part of the theory, and that's it.
 

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