Is Energy Required to Freeze Water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether energy is required for water to freeze and the implications of energy transfer and entropy in this process. Participants explore the thermodynamic principles involved in freezing water, including energy removal and entropy changes, while also touching on broader concepts related to thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if energy is consumed during the freezing of water, suggesting that freezing occurs due to decreased molecular movement rather than energy consumption.
  • Another participant asserts that energy is indeed removed from water to facilitate freezing.
  • A different viewpoint discusses the need for energy expenditure to create conditions for ice formation, emphasizing that energy must be shifted from the freezer to the environment, which involves increasing the total entropy of the universe.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the role of entropy in this context, noting that while energy is extracted from water to freeze it, the concept of entropy and its implications for disorder and energy transfer remain complex and challenging to grasp.
  • This participant also speculates on potential connections between entropy and electromagnetic theories, particularly in relation to thermodynamic cycles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the role of energy in the freezing process, with differing views on whether energy is consumed or merely transferred. The discussion includes both agreement on certain thermodynamic principles and ongoing confusion regarding the implications of entropy.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of entropy, as well as the relationship between energy transfer and molecular order. The discussion reveals a lack of clarity on how these concepts interrelate in the context of freezing water.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying thermodynamics, physics students exploring the principles of energy transfer and entropy, or individuals curious about the complexities of phase changes in matter.

aychamo
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Hi guys,

Very long time, no see!

Quick question: if water is left outside and freezes, was any energy consumed in the freezing process? And if so, would this energy be stored in the ice and be released when it melts?

My gut is telling me that no energy is needed to freeze water, because the freezing is a result of water molecules moving slower (due to decreased temperature, or decreased energy input.) Perhaps I'm just having a brain-fart in needing to even ask this question.

Thank you for any input.

Aychamo
 
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Correct: Energy is removed from the water to make it freeze.
 
If you want to create the conditions, locally, such that you can make ice , however. You need to have already expended energy (running the freezer) in order to shift energy from inside the freezer into the outside world.
To decrease the entropy ('extracting' some of the thermal energy from your freezer and re-ordering the situation locally), you have had to increase the total entropy of the Universe by burning coal somewhere, to generate the Electricity.
 
hey I am not very much friendly with these thermodynamics.. but I have studied it in my 1st year.. (but now I am in electronic department..!).. anyway I remember the 'entropy' was something which make lot of us crazy and crazy :-)...
whatever it is I have a comment on this ... yes of course ,you take some coal energy and then you use that energy to extract energy from the water.. no doubt the energy inside the water will decrease and it will be frozen.. my problem is how this entropy comes to here..? everything is fine.. 'but' the disorder of the molecules... ! entropy...!and as I remember the entropy of the universe is increasing but not decreasing..and if I am correct entropy is a line integral.. sometimes I feel that there is a huge relationship between BH loop in the electromagnetic theories and these entropy case...also in BH loop it says that you need some additional influence to bring back the molecules to its initial order from the final order... ahhh... that is why there is a BH loop other than the same reversing path... it is 'maybe' something like a closed cycle of thermodynamics...! Entropy... ! that is amazing... anyway this is just a comment...
 

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